3.5 B&S stalled while coasting...now won't start...?

#1
Hey Y'all...

I was out riding our little Alsport Mts-30 trike yesterday evening and had been riding probably 15 minutes on the road....not going very fast...and not really putting a strain on the engine....so I'm going down a small incline, and the trike starts coasting at a speed faster than the motor is going, then the motor stalled....and would not restart.

It's a 3.5 hp B&S motor, probably late 90's model that had been running fine up to this point, and was on a mini bike before it was on the trike, and did fine there too.

To address this, after double checking my gas level, I started at the spark plug, which I found had vibrated to the point where it could be loosened by hand..?

Thinking oh, easy fix, I tightened it up after checking it to make sure it did not appear to have fouled. Would not start.

Then I tried a new spark plug, actually 2, as when the one that had been in my tool box wouldn't work, I bought a new one and tried it, even with starting spray, still sounds like it's not firing and will not start.

Did I by chance cook the points or something ? perhaps advanced the timing when coasting faster than the motor was currently running (if you can do such a thing ?)...I don't know ....:shrug:

I've never really had to mess with a flathead Briggs before, they always just start right up, even after sitting for ages.

So I guess I need to go back to basics first, and confirm whether I truly have spark or not...gotta find my spark tester thing.

I am also thinking, since I don't really know if it's a spark issue....could the carburetor clog up while going down the road like that ?

Do the symptoms sound familiar, and does it sound like I am heading in the right direction toward getting this thing started again ?....suggestions.....?

Thanks,

Robert
 
#3
Hey Tom,

That was something I found odd...the plug does not seem to get wet with gas...I know the new one I put in there, didn't smell like gas after I tried to start it and took it back out...?

That would point then to my gas supply, or lack thereof I guess...?...The carburetor is one of those newer briggs carbs, with the choke set by a lever with two settings choke or run...not like my older briggs with the pull out choke.

Anything special about cleaning these carbs ?....I'm used to cleaning tecumseh carbs...but have never cleaned a briggs carb...I'll have to youtube it I guess.

As far as compression goes....it 'feels' the same when you pull the rope, and it squirts gas in to the carb with each revolution. (I guess it's supposed to do that with crank case pressure some how). But the plug sure didn't smell like gas...?

Thank you Tom, and I'm still open to suggestions and opinions from all, while I'm trying to figure this out. Thanks.
 

Fisher1983

Active Member
#4
Id start with cleaning the carb. Maybe some crud got sucked into the idle circuit on the decel. Nothing special cleaning them, i like to use a stripped piece of electrical wire to clean the fixed jet orifice with 1 or 2 strands of it. Backflush the pickup tube when you have the diaphragm cover off. Use a fresh diaphragm and gaskets. And of course, make sure the inside of the fuel tank is clean.
 
#5
If it won't fire with a shot of carb spray, I would lean toward an ignition issue. Do you have a spark checker that you can view to while you pull? If the engine is that late of a mode there are no points. Just the cool and flywheel and key. I'd check the spark quality first and then the timing key.


Sent from my Texas Instruments Speak and Spell...[emoji2]
 
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#6
Id start with cleaning the carb. Maybe some crud got sucked into the idle circuit on the decel. Nothing special cleaning them, i like to use a stripped piece of electrical wire to clean the fixed jet orifice with 1 or 2 strands of it. Backflush the pickup tube when you have the diaphragm cover off. Use a fresh diaphragm and gaskets. And of course, make sure the inside of the fuel tank is clean.
Thanks Fisher...I just found an watched a two part video on cleaning these here's part 1, it'll have a link then to part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTh_egEPuIc

I'll probably do that (I'm sure it could use it), since I need to order the diaphram, I am going to try first the ignition suggestions that Chad made.

If it won't fire with a shot of carb spray, I would lean toward an ignition issue. Do you have a spark checker that you can view to while you pull? If the engine is that late of a mode there are no points. Just the cool and flywheel and key. I'd check the spark quality first and then the timing key.
Thanks Chad....I just found my spark tester, and confirmed I do have spark....nice blue spark...:thumbsup:

The flywheel key really has me curious though.... and would make sense to have happened on that free rolling of the trike while the motor was decelerating. So next, I am going to pull off the shroud and check out the key. Hoping there is room to easily do so with the fiberglass bucket still in place...:doah:

Thanks for the suggestions y'all....:thumbsup:....keep em coming...:laugh:
 
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Fisher1983

Active Member
#7
Good call. I missed the carb spray thing. Verify that key is in one piece. Also you said blue spark...if I recall blue spark is a weaker spark...when you did the ignition test were you spinning the heck out of it? Im used to seeing more of a whiteish spark in these engines. Curious to see what you find.
 

Fisher1983

Active Member
#8
One more suggestion....you said it feels the same when you pull it over. Put a compression gauge on it and see what readings are with the carb wide open. 60-80 psi cold is ok. I once had a 3hp with a poorly sealing valve that felt like it had compression but wouldnt fire. Comp gauge read 38 psi cold. Did a valve job, checked tappet clearances, got 76 psi cold and away she went.
 
#9
White/blue spark should be good. My only other thought would be a pick up tube vibrated out of the carb but that doesn't explain why it won't try to fire with carb spray?


Sent from my Texas Instruments Speak and Spell...[emoji2]
 
#10
Ok, I had to remove the fiberglass bucket to access the shroud.

I have the shroud removed...two 7/16th bolts and one 10mm...?

I find I need a deep 15/16'th socket for this nut holding on the flywheel. I probably need to pick up a key anyway. I am running in to town in a little bit to see my Mom, and pass by Harbor Freight..today I have an excuse to stop there too !

So I'll get the flywheel removed when I get back, and will let y'all know what I find.

At least I 'feel' like I am making progress toward resolution....I'll feel a lot better though when this thing start's back up...:laugh:
 
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#13
Got my 15/16'ths socket. Harbor Freight did not have regular key stock...Woodruff Keys...but no regular stock...seemed odd to me.

Anyway, I got the nut and cup off of the flywheel...and judging by looking at this...it appears (to my limited experience) that the key stock and the flywheel allignement is ok. That said, could it look this good from the outside, yet still be butchered enough to cause a timing problem.

I kind of don't want to pull the flywheel if this looks okay and rules out suspicion of sheared key stock, check it out and let me know what you think...do I need to pull the flywheel or not ?



Thanks y'all !
 
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#15
Well shucks....step by step...a process of elimination.

Thank you for the guidance Chad. (and to everyone else who's offering advice....:thumbsup:)

Removing the Briggs carb and cleaning it will be a learning experience for me...after watching that video, i understand better how the gas is pulled from the main tank, in to the tanks interior bowl, then up in to the carb.

I am hopeful I learn some more about what is between that point and the combustion chamber....as the diaphram pump system appears to be pumping a mist in to the throat of the carb with each revolution of the motor...to me it looks like it's getting to the body of the carburetor. Perhaps it is clogged such that the mist is the wrong mixture...too rich or too lean...that is preventing it from igniting properly.

I guess I'll be finding out as I go. Hoping to have some time to work with it some more tomorrow, and will report back with progress.

Thanks again !
 
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