I was thinking about this a while back, and after a little research, I came across some tie rod ends on the Jegs site. It's their part #64157. Might have to simply file the threads down just a hair in order to fit inside 7/8 tubing. A nice little tig bead would do the trick. There may also be some additional advantage with these; meaning, since they are wider than the thin crimped tubing, the axle would have more surface to rest on. Me likey.
An alternative to crimping fork tube ends
- Thread starter Sunnyknoll
- Start date
I think I'd like using those rod ends. Guess I'm wondering why you didn't simply weld the rod ends to the fork tubes. Was the plating on those the problem? Again, seems like it would be somewhat beneficial having the axles resting on a wider surface. If I could ever get this new computer (with its new program) to help me, I put a link up on those Jegs #64157 tie rod ends. Maybe somebody could help us with that??
Here ya go.
Danford1
JEGS Performance Products 64157: One-Piece Rod End with Jam Nut 5/8" Hole | JEGS
Danford1
JEGS Performance Products 64157: One-Piece Rod End with Jam Nut 5/8" Hole | JEGS
You wouldn't need to remove the platting if you plug welded them to the tube. To do that you drill a hole like 3/8" diameter through both sides of the tube where the middle of the threads will be once inserted in the tube. You weld in those holes and the threads. This way you can grind and file the outside of the tube totally smooth and those rod ends will have a clean weld free look to them.
Danford1
Danford1
Last edited:
Just a side note.
The Heald bikes originally came with pressed or crimped fork tube ends. Sometime in the early 70's I believe they changed to the welded pipe ends. As far as complete failure, I have never heard of that but there have been many Heald tubes that showed cracks in the crimped tube ends where the axle goes through.
I changed my fork tubes over to the later welded tube from crimped when I restored my VT-3 two years ago. Why push the envelope.
Doc
The Heald bikes originally came with pressed or crimped fork tube ends. Sometime in the early 70's I believe they changed to the welded pipe ends. As far as complete failure, I have never heard of that but there have been many Heald tubes that showed cracks in the crimped tube ends where the axle goes through.
I changed my fork tubes over to the later welded tube from crimped when I restored my VT-3 two years ago. Why push the envelope.
Doc
Last edited:
The only problem I have seen with the crimped ends is that if you don't have a perfect length axle and the threaded part happens to ride on the crimped area, then it just beats the hell out of the threads. you end up with a sloppy axle on that side. Most of the bikes I have built, although not too many, have gotten a piece of DOM tubing welded to the end of the forks.
Here's a thought: To reinforce those crimped ends, what if you got some of those (what I call) double thick flat washers and welded them to the inside faces of the crimped ends. In order to get the axle fit correct, you'd probably have to get 1/2" washers and drill them out to 5/8", I suppose. Seems like it would provide the support ahead of the threads, at least.
Just a side note.
The Heald bikes originally came with pressed or crimped fork tube ends. Sometime in the early 70's I believe they changed to the welded pipe ends. As far as complete failure, I have never heard of that but there have been many Heald tubes that showed cracks in the crimped tube ends where the axle goes through.
I changed my fork tubes over to the later welded tube from crimped when I restored my VT-3 two years ago. Why push the envelope.
Doc
The Heald bikes originally came with pressed or crimped fork tube ends. Sometime in the early 70's I believe they changed to the welded pipe ends. As far as complete failure, I have never heard of that but there have been many Heald tubes that showed cracks in the crimped tube ends where the axle goes through.
I changed my fork tubes over to the later welded tube from crimped when I restored my VT-3 two years ago. Why push the envelope.
Doc
[MENTION=44326]Docdc[/MENTION] where do you have your chrome done?
My little Weldking mini has those tubes as well. Evan's welds are beautiful. In addition to offering the best support for the axle, I think it (arguably) looks the nicest. When doing that, it's obvious, the tube ends have to be notched. Might also be important to be sure those notches are carefully centered on the tubes.
Sunnyknoll, there are a couple posts in here somewhere where [MENTION=31471]mrpat[/MENTION] and [MENTION=18286]manchester1[/MENTION] made dies for crimping these with their shop presses. Both of them made some really clean, centered pieces. I agree that they are not the strongest, for higher performance machines and adult riders, but work for vintage or period correct bikes.
The other option of course is the tubes. I found an online tube coping calculator where you enter in the particulars and print out a pattern. Most of the metal fabricators know about this, but it was news to me. The result was that I was finally able to do precision "notches" in mere seconds with my angle grinder. Here is the link.
Centering the forks is as easy as setting them to level, and over spraying with primer or matte paint, or guide coat, and running a level on the top to lightly score the paint. That will give you and index for aligning the coping. To level, flip the forks up to vertical, and lay the tube pieces in their coped areas, and set to level with magnet/level/axle/spacers. Not hard at all. Takes longer to talk about it.
As far as heim joints, I can understand why someone would attempt it. I do not understand why someone would weld on a nut to a fork leg- since there are threaded inserts for use with this in panhard fabrications. Still, one is left with a threaded axle support that could pivot, that rests all of the weight against threads, and that begins a service cycle of the pivoting eye.
Your idea of smoothing the threads and rose budding the heim in place is a better idea, but you are still running an axle into a moveable surface. Probably never have an incident with it on a regular kid's mini bike. But with the tube and coping option available, why take that chance?
I hope I was able to provide some food for thought, and maybe give you some ideas. I'm no master fabricator, so this is the stuff I came up with that didn't require me farming out my work, or buying more tools.
The other option of course is the tubes. I found an online tube coping calculator where you enter in the particulars and print out a pattern. Most of the metal fabricators know about this, but it was news to me. The result was that I was finally able to do precision "notches" in mere seconds with my angle grinder. Here is the link.
Centering the forks is as easy as setting them to level, and over spraying with primer or matte paint, or guide coat, and running a level on the top to lightly score the paint. That will give you and index for aligning the coping. To level, flip the forks up to vertical, and lay the tube pieces in their coped areas, and set to level with magnet/level/axle/spacers. Not hard at all. Takes longer to talk about it.
As far as heim joints, I can understand why someone would attempt it. I do not understand why someone would weld on a nut to a fork leg- since there are threaded inserts for use with this in panhard fabrications. Still, one is left with a threaded axle support that could pivot, that rests all of the weight against threads, and that begins a service cycle of the pivoting eye.
Your idea of smoothing the threads and rose budding the heim in place is a better idea, but you are still running an axle into a moveable surface. Probably never have an incident with it on a regular kid's mini bike. But with the tube and coping option available, why take that chance?
I hope I was able to provide some food for thought, and maybe give you some ideas. I'm no master fabricator, so this is the stuff I came up with that didn't require me farming out my work, or buying more tools.
Dave, thanks for that. I hear you about using (what I call) those "ball type" Heim joints for the axle mounts. I agree, I don't think I'd want to use those either. What I was talking about using was the solid tie rod ends. BTW, a few years ago, I had a machine shop buddy of mine mill two small blocks of steel into a die for crimping those tubes. The two blocks are made of 1" thick steel and measure 2 1/2"x 6". They kind of slide together and are held in alignment by four small steel rods that have been drilled into them. They make a crimp that looks somewhat similar to the Lil Indian tubes.
Looking at the tubes I've crimped, I still think welding those extra thick washers to the inside faces could be a good thing. Might be comforting to have the "smooth" part of those axles resting on a little wider surface.
Looking at the tubes I've crimped, I still think welding those extra thick washers to the inside faces could be a good thing. Might be comforting to have the "smooth" part of those axles resting on a little wider surface.