Drive X Pack Mule

[joebiodiesel]

I picked up a Drive X Pack Mule today at the minibike show in Eden, NC. Like others before me, I thought it was a Tote Gote, but I don't care that it isn't.
The drive belt doesn't look close to correct. It should be much wider, no? Anyone know what size, or how I figure it out? Know where I can get the correct one?
I don't think the engine is original. If I'm correct, it is an 8HP. Can anyone confirm?
Here's the info:
Model 190402
Type 0653-01
Code 74090911

Anyone know where I can get a brake band for one? If not, I can get this one relined.

 

[Radford46]

I believe that was the deal of the day at the show. I saw it as soon as I walked in, and couldn't believe the price on it, but I've got two big beasts I'm working on now, and I was trying to stay with selling today.

 

[Radford46]

Just found this on a site search.

 

[joebiodiesel]

I agree it was a great deal! I was glad to get it. I've been casually looking for a fat tire bike, but the trail horse style is just as cool! I ride all of mine, so I'm hoping to be able to find a belt for it easily. I broke the diffuser in the carb yesterday, but found a rebuild kit that has a new one in it.
Joe

 

[xr7gt]

Engine is from a snow blower. The shield on recoil is a snow guard. Very nice clutch. Salsbury 500

 

[joebiodiesel]

Thanks for the tip on the clutch. It says 500 Series on it. That's cool that you could spot that at a distance.
I've been trying to figure out the belt size. The driven clutch is 7.5" across and my center to center distance is 13"
Closest I've found is 14". I know 1 inch can make a big difference on a CVT.
Joe

 

[rollin2]

I had belt issues with a salsbury as well before.While no expert by any means,you may be able to search for snowmobile belts.

 

[joebiodiesel]

Thanks everyone. I have done a lot of internet searching but have stalled out. I know what belt diameter I need, but every website I visit goes by driven clutch diameter and center-to-center distance on the pulleys. Does anyone know the math used to calculate the belt length? I think that may be my only hope of coming up with the correct belt.
Joe

 

[control4userguy]

^ I do. What I'd need is the diameter of each pulley as it relates to where the belt lies (on each unit) at rest. Just put a mark on the pulley face then remove the belt and measure the radius. Do this for drive and driven. Or, if the belt rests on each shaft then the shaft diameter is all that is needed.

Sorry, not familiar with a Salisbury clutch...

 

[joebiodiesel]

^ I do. What I'd need is the diameter of each pulley as it relates to where the belt lies (on each unit) at rest. Just put a mark on the pulley face then remove the belt and measure the radius. Do this for drive and driven. Or, if the belt rests on each shaft then the shaft diameter is all that is needed.

Sorry, not familiar with a Salisbury clutch...

Very cool. I appreciate any help I can get! I'm striking out big time with the mini bike and go cart belt suppliers.
So you know, the Salisbury clutch is just a like a Comet CVT. The belt fits loosely over the shaft of the drive clutch, then it gets squeezed by it as you rev the engine. The belt also doesn't fit tightly to the shaft of the drive clutch. I'm betting you know how a CVT works though.
I'll get the measurements when I get home this weekend. I don't know the shaft diameter of the drive clutch.

Joe

 

[control4userguy]

Got it. In the photos, what appears to be the driver, the unit looks to be wide open with a significant void between the belt and the inner sheave. Can I assume that the outer sheave will move inward at a relatively low rpm? I might agree with you that the belt shown is not the correct width. Again,no experience with this particular type of converter.

Back at the driven, the belt is not sitting up at the top of the sheaves like a TAV2 or similar would be. So, without critiquing the hardware, simply measure the diameter of each node where the belt rests statically. Both units must work in concert so the belt is not stretched or allowed to go limp during dynamic operation. If that were the case, we'd be buying rubber bands instead

 

[joebiodiesel]

The belt that is on it is nowhere near correct. On the driven clutch, the belt should be wide enough to have the outside edge of the belt be even with the top of the pulley. As speed increases, the belt will drop down inside the pulley changing the gear ratio.
As that happens, the belt that rests on the center shaft at idle, gets squeezed by the drive clutch, engaging it. As RPMs go up, the clutch squeezes progressively harder, making the belt ride higher in the pulley.
Here's some animation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VYPsrOyIdw

Videos are better than words!
Joe

 

[control4userguy]

So, this is what you have so far?

C-to-C= 13
Driver D= ??
Driven D= 7.5

Also, it would be handy to know the circumference of the existing belt.

 

[joebiodiesel]

That is what I have so far. My calculations, which are probably wrong, get me to just shy of 40".
I added half the circumference of a 7.5" clutch.
13" X 2 for the center to center distance, then another couple of inches to get around the drive clutch shaft.

The closest belt I find is a Carlisle MAX1110M2. It's .92 inches in top width and 41.2 inches outer circumference. I find nothing closer than that so far.

Joe

 

[control4userguy]

...then another couple of inches to get around the drive clutch shaft.

Joe

Need the exact diameter of the pulley on the drive-end. This is what I asked for in post #13. As it appears in the photo, it looks like it is not wrapped around the engine crankshaft, not even close. Is there a reason for not posting the actual circumference of the belt on there now?

Well, all I can tell you is that given a 1.1" diameter up front (which it doesn't appear to be in the photo), this calcs out to 40.1 inches circumference. Sounds like you have the formula so I'm out.

 

[joebiodiesel]

I'm not being coy with the measurements. My bike is at home, and I'm out working this week. I'm only home on weekends, so I'm not there to get the dimensions.

The shaft on the engine is is 1", so the center diameter of the clutch is a little bigger than that. I can check it on Saturday.
Same goes for the belt that's on it. I didn't measure it before I left, so I don't know what it is. I do know that it was ridiculously loose, and didn't ride at the top of the driven pulley. There's no way it would have worked.
I'm glad you came up with numbers similar to mine. I'm even happier that they are higher than mine. I have found 2 belts with 41.25" length.
Thanks for the help.
Joe

 

[joebiodiesel]

Controlguy, if you're still checking the thread, the drive pulley shaft diameter is 1.2 inches. I put a regular fan belt on it today that kinda worked. It is 42 inches long. Engagement was crazy. Kinda like dropping the clutch. If you hit it hard enough it would wheelie. At least I got to ride it though!
When I get home next weekend I'll have the belt I ordered for it. I look forward to seeing how it operates with the proper belt. The drive clutch can't squeeze a regular fan belt very well, so it's only a single speed CVT at the moment.
Joe

 

[joebiodiesel]

I must be REALLY bad at math! The belt I ordered is way too short. It needs to be at least a couple of inches longer. I'll try again.
In the mean time I fixed the air filter, put a nicer fuel filter on it. Changed the seat foam, and I'm riding it all over the neighborhood. Quieter muffler on the way.
Joe

 

[control4userguy]

^Depends on how it was ordered. Did you go by the CL/driven D method or the circumference method? Since you supplied the Driver D number of 1.2, that would result in a belt circumference of 40.25".

If you ordered and received a 42" belt and a 44", as you say, is needed, the information provided thus far is not correct. My suggestion would be to R&R that converter and make sure it is serviceable. Then either retry your 42" belt and/or re-measure using the appropriate caliper/straight-edge.

The calculation I use is simple geometry. I used the same calc when I purchased my belt. Had I used the fitment chart Comet supplied, I would have locked-up the whole drivetrain. Unless the supplier specifically mentions circumference, don't buy their belt.

 

[joebiodiesel]

Here's how I ended up with the belt I did.

The measurements on the clutch are simple enough. A tape measure was used on the driven clutch. Salsbury lists a 7.5" and 8.5" Clutch. Mine is definitely the smaller one, and the driven clutch is within a 1/4" of 7.5".
The circumference of the shaft on the drive clutch was measured with a caliper, so I'm not off on that one. One mistake we made on that one is that we needed to add the thickness of the belt to the measurement. We measured the OD of the driven clutch on the outer edge of the belt, and the OD of the drive clutch on the ID of the belt.
The Center to Center measurement is hard to goof up too.

Here's the chart I used to pick a belt. It mentions the circumference. I measured it last night, and it is correct.

So, heres's the math that way I should have done it the first time.
A CVT Belt doesn't fit tightly over the drive pulley. It takes a looping path over it. I draped the pulley over it like it will probably fit when sized properly. The OD is 3.5" or so.
That gives me:
Half the circumference of the top pulley - 10.2
13" Center to Center, twice - 26
Half the Circumference of the drive pulley(to the OD of the belt) - 5.5
That gets me 41.7"

As a snowmobiler for 30+ years I've installed my fair share of belts. The clutches are fine. I know how to install them.
I'm thinking that it must be the looping path that the belt takes. I can't imagine that it would add that much distance, but numbers don't lie.

As much as it sucks, I'm thinking that trial and error is how I'm going to end up in the right place.

Joe