Fitting 6.5 Predator in Model B Tote Goat, what would you do?

[2th Doc]

Hey guys, first post here! I've been lurking around the forums here and there since picking up my model B tote goat a little bit ago. I had one of these growing up and I'm stoked to be restoring this one, but alas I've already run into a conundrum and would love to have some opinions on it. I'm hoping someone has seen a 6.5 go into a model B.

The problem(s) I found today is that first, the stock air filter box prevents the engine from lining up with the engine mounting bolts, as is. No problem, get an aftermarket air filter. So, I removed the air filter, and soon found out that when trying to line up the clutch so the belt is straight, the bottom of the carburetor is hitting dead center on the right side 45 degree frame member (check out the frame here).

(Not sure why the photo uploaded rotated? Sorry about that.)

Also, given the large size of the rear drive pulley, and the belt going between it and the clutch, I'm concerned that the exhaust placement might be an issue. But, I'm thinking a custom bent pipe could be made to sharply avoid the belt, come up, and then track right down the middle of the jackshaft.

The options I've come up with are:

(I should mention that I have only one small welding experience under my belt, and no equipment, so I'll be having to get these mods done at a local shop.)

1. Cut off the clutch guard U-shaped frame member, cut the support bar that is welded to the front middle of the engine mounting plate, and essentially weld on a new mounting plate that extends further forward and reweld the middle support bar to the front of the new plate. The issue I see with this is the change in distance for the belt. This is my first dive into a project like this, so I'm not sure if it would be easy or not to find a belt that would fit such an arbitrary setup.

2. Modify the 45 degree frame member, cutting it off and trying to weld in a new support in the remaining space after the engine is properly mounted. The problem with this is my lack of engineering background, trying to find a solution that won't significantly diminish the integrity of the frame. If I try to push the bottom end of the support rearward, it intrudes on the foot peg hole. If I try to move the upper end of the support elsewhere, I'm severely limited in positions because on either side of the end currently is a bolt hole for securing the jackshaft.

3. Return the engine and pay the 20% restocking fee, or try and sell the engine on craigslist, and go with a different smaller engine. The main reason I chose this engine is the HP/price point though, and the cult following/parts availability. I don't have much more than $100 to spend on an engine; definitely not $2-300. So, I'm not sure where I'd go if not for the Predator.

Please if you have any suggestions, criticisms, or additional ideas, I'd love to hear them. I was hoping this would be a pretty simple toe dipping into a restoration project, but obviously I'm already starting to learn things the hard way :grind: :facepalm: :hack: :mad2: . Looking forward to hearing your guys' opinions, and sharing my progress so hopefully others can benefit from it as well.

 

[Stangrcr1]

Restoration of a Tote does NOT include a clone motor.....

That being said, rebuilding it to your liking is a whole nother barrel of cluster... I like seeing old iron being brought back to life, but don't call it a "restoration" if you are not using at least the original style flathead motor.

Personally I would find a Briggs for it, but since you have already modified it, raise the back of the Predator. It does not have to sit flat on the motor plate. Put a 1/2" block under the back mounting pad and see where everything lines up. Then go from there.

 

[cxbra]

Sorry to hear about your situation, I BARELY made my Predator fit in my El Tigre! The stock muffler had to be modified to run outboard (looks really cool to me :laugh, the front of the engine protrudes out so far that I can only fit the center of my right foot on the peg if I angle my foot down, my gas tank lid is about 1" from the top of the frame, under the rails (tight squeeze with my fingers, nothing too crazy) and my spark plug boot is literally 2mm from the frame and not fitting!

Hey man, I just realized something!! Loosen the bottom bolt on the carb bowl and simply rotate that drain bolt out of the way then tighten again! That will work if the clearance of the bolt was your only issue :gunsmilie:unk:. If its more serious than that, you might want to look into fabricating an intake manifold out of curved radiator hoses and some flanges to attach the carb and block. Search it on google, I got the idea from a post in a karting forum that I saw years ago.

 

[Havasu Dave]

The main reason I chose this engine is the HP/price point though, and the cult following/parts availability. I don't have much more than $100 to spend on an engine; definitely not $2-300. So, I'm not sure where I'd go if not for the Predator.

Aint no cult following of that motor. I bought a rebuilt briggs 6HP from a member here for just a tad over your budget for a Tote Gote.

Some people have put these motors into the Nova tote gote, but they're completely different than the B. I'd be real hesitant about hacking up the frame and modifying anything other than the motor plate.

Lots of clone motor parts though, so you can make something work eventually. Sorry, it's your bike and all, but I am not feeling that motor on that bike. Once done though, it'll out perform any B model out there.

 

[WLB]

2th Doc, if you can't find a good Briggs motor for your Gote, you might consider a Honda GS series motor. They are vertical cylinder overhead cam motors. Thats what came in my Tote Gote and it fits well. If I ever find a reasonably priced Briggs with dual ball bearing crank and cast iron sleeve, the Honda will disappear though.

 

[Havasu Dave]

I should have been more supportive in my earlier post. Doc, member Richard Trotter here is a walking encyclopedia on all things Gote.

I don't know if the B had a 3 or a 5 HP Briggs. Both of those engines are plentiful, and inexpensive. I wouldn't mess with the frame though.

 

[Harleys Papa]

2th Doc, first off welcome to the madness :doah: I mean the forum :thumbsup: I ran into a similar problem with my VT3 :doah: I made a mount that raised the engine about an inch, it looks like and inch or so might work for you too :thumbsup: And if you go with an aftermarket air filter and a new pipe you should rejet the carb too :thumbsup:
this is the mount I made, it is off set as I needed to move the engine forward too :thumbsup:

This air cleaner GX200/Clone Air Filter Kit w/ Carburetor Stud
and this jet kit Jet kit for Honda Clone engines

 

[george3]

Hey guys, first post here! I've been lurking around the forums here and there since picking up my model B tote goat a little bit ago. I had one of these growing up and I'm stoked to be restoring this one, but alas I've already run into a conundrum and would love to have some opinions on it. I'm hoping someone has seen a 6.5 go into a model B.

The problem(s) I found today is that first, the stock air filter box prevents the engine from lining up with the engine mounting bolts, as is. No problem, get an aftermarket air filter. So, I removed the air filter, and soon found out that when trying to line up the clutch so the belt is straight, the bottom of the carburetor is hitting dead center on the right side 45 degree frame member (check out the frame here).

(Not sure why the photo uploaded rotated? Sorry about that.)

Also, given the large size of the rear drive pulley, and the belt going between it and the clutch, I'm concerned that the exhaust placement might be an issue. But, I'm thinking a custom bent pipe could be made to sharply avoid the belt, come up, and then track right down the middle of the jackshaft.

The options I've come up with are:

(I should mention that I have only one small welding experience under my belt, and no equipment, so I'll be having to get these mods done at a local shop.)

1. Cut off the clutch guard U-shaped frame member, cut the support bar that is welded to the front middle of the engine mounting plate, and essentially weld on a new mounting plate that extends further forward and reweld the middle support bar to the front of the new plate. The issue I see with this is the change in distance for the belt. This is my first dive into a project like this, so I'm not sure if it would be easy or not to find a belt that would fit such an arbitrary setup.

2. Modify the 45 degree frame member, cutting it off and trying to weld in a new support in the remaining space after the engine is properly mounted. The problem with this is my lack of engineering background, trying to find a solution that won't significantly diminish the integrity of the frame. If I try to push the bottom end of the support rearward, it intrudes on the foot peg hole. If I try to move the upper end of the support elsewhere, I'm severely limited in positions because on either side of the end currently is a bolt hole for securing the jackshaft.

3. Return the engine and pay the 20% restocking fee, or try and sell the engine on craigslist, and go with a different smaller engine. The main reason I chose this engine is the HP/price point though, and the cult following/parts availability. I don't have much more than $100 to spend on an engine; definitely not $2-300. So, I'm not sure where I'd go if not for the Predator.

Please if you have any suggestions, criticisms, or additional ideas, I'd love to hear them. I was hoping this would be a pretty simple toe dipping into a restoration project, but obviously I'm already starting to learn things the hard way :grind: :facepalm: :hack: :mad2: . Looking forward to hearing your guys' opinions, and sharing my progress so hopefully others can benefit from it as well.

You want to butcher the bike to fit the engine? DUMB. Just use a 5HP briggs or a Honda GC engine. It wont be fast anyway. Its geared too low. 5HP briggs or the GC engine will take you anywhere you want to go.

 

[george3]

I modded my engine for the bike. I still have the oem engine and will go back in as it was.

 

[2th Doc]

Thanks for the helpful replies guys, I hadn't even thought of raising the motor up. I'll have to try adjusting the carb bowl as well. Harleys Papa that custom mount looks awesome! I dropped by Home Depot today and picked up 1" square tubing that I was planning to drill through and put under each side of the engine and bolt through. Would that be a sound idea, or is there a reason to have a full surface contact underneath the engine like Harleys' mount? It looks like I'll have to relocate the gas tank as well if I do end up staying with the Predator. I can't quite get the engine up high enough before the tank hits the cross supports for the seat.

Something I maybe should have mentioned previously, but didn't because I didn't think I would end up using it, is that I bought this goat with an old B&S engine on it. I looked up the model 130202 and it appears to be a 5HP, not sure if it's the original but I'm thinking it is :shrug: I injected a little fuel down the broken metal fuel line and got it to run for a few good seconds, so it seems like it has a little more life than I gave it credit for. I'm inclined to use it now (still debating on the mods needed to run the Predator) for simplicity's sake, but the first thing I noticed is the air filter assembly is completely missing. I found parts diagrams online and have been sourcing the replacement parts, and many of the original parts are discontinued. I've been finding some here and there, but they're coming up quite pricey, like $15-20 each for the air filter cover & stud. There's a handful of other parts that would be needed to... so, my question is what would be a good alternative to the stock air filter assembly? There's a little lip sticking up from the intake that I could see hose clamping something onto, but I'm not sure how secure that would be.

 

[Stangrcr1]

For the Briggs parts, I probably have them laying around. Or someone here definitely will.

Post a pic of your carb setup on the Briggs and we can go from there.

Glad you are considering putting the Briggs back in!


On edit: The 1" square tubing can flatten if you tighten the bolts too much.

 

[2th Doc]

Here's what my carb setup looks like:

As far as the 1" tubing compressing, I could probably fanagle some washers inside around the bolts as I feed them through to minimize that... but the more I think about it, the more I'll probably just use the Briggs for now and either save the Predator for a future go kart project or see if it sells on Craigslist to fund the goat's progress. Now I just have to get down and dirty cleaning this grimy Briggs. Any veteran tips on cleaning off 40+ yrs of grime? Dish soap, water, and a wire brush? Or is there some kind of degreaser that would work wonders on it and not damage any of the gaskets or other parts.

 

[Stangrcr1]

For cleaning, I use Purple Power with toothbrushes, and some flux brushes. Anything like a wire brush will damage the paint and decals. Dish soap works too, just slower.

I don't have any more of the air filters for the flowjet carb you have. Someone here does....

 

[GTO]

The tote gote is trying to spat the clone out.:laugh:

Use the Briggs! That carb can be a pain and pricey for a rebuild kit but even with another carb the flat head will still look better.

For cleaning you could cover every opening then blast it at a car wash then touch up with a brush and brake cleaner outside then change oil and some engine paint.

I bought a "restored" model B with a honda in it, the air cleaner and pipe was modded to fit and gas tank put forward. Looked like bloody hell. ut:

These are made to climb cliffs so expect 10mph unless you change the gearing. Even A little 3hp is fine with stock gears!:laugh:

Save the clone for a neglected DB frame to cruise around on. :thumbsup:

 

[Harleys Papa]

Guess I should have told you my Tote Gote has a Briggs 5 in it :laugh: I hate the dam thing but that's just me and the bike is for sale :thumbsup: but anyway here is what some one did with the intake for an air filter :thumbsup:

 

[2th Doc]

Harleys is that a vacuum hose zip tied to the carb? Looks legit :laugh: I don't see where the actual filter is though... is it that aluminum cylinder sitting up top of the engine on the far side? I called around to some shops today and got ahold of one before they closed, said there was an alternate part number since mine's discontinued, and that he'd have me a price for it on Monday. Depending on how that works out... I may or may not just end up trying the DIY filter. The thing I was concerned about with that though, is would that have enough impact to necessitate rejetting the carb, or is that only more of a concern when swapping the exhaust? Rejetting probably would be minimal cost though I suppose.

 

[Stangrcr1]

well, isn't there an adjustment screw coming out of the carb for mixture?

 

[Harleys Papa]

2TH Doc, it is a flexible yet stiff tube and they use some kind of spring clip too hold it in the carb :shrug: and the metal can in the last 2 pic's is the air cleaner

 

[WLB]

They may have put that snorkel affair air box on it so they could run through shallow creeks.

 

[Davis]

I modded my engine for the bike. I still have the oem engine and will go back in as it was.

I know this is a old thread but George3 can you tell me what pipe you put on that gote and how did you get that gas cap centered? Did you move the motor over?