Home Made Electrolysis Rust Removal

[capguncowboy]

I decided to try my hand at this. I've been watching the videos for a while and it looks like an easy risk-free way to remove rust and layers of paint.

I had a few things laying around that needed rust removal, but before I dove in, I decided to test it on a few pieces that I could stand to lose if something went wrong.

I set up a 5-gallon bucket and used Arm and Hammer Washing Soda (Sodium Carbonate) because I read that's the best thing to use (no harsh odors or dangerous leftovers). I bought a 6v/12v 2A/6A manual battery charger. I am running it on 12v/6A -- if that's not right, please let me know.

I later moved the positive lead from the tops of the re-bar to the outside of the bucket onto the copper ties. It helps prevent shorting it out accidentally.

The rust removal process worked great on the test pieces:

I have a Tecumseh H30 gas tank that's pretty bad on the inside, and not too great on the outside either. I hooked it up and submerged it. After an hour or so I pulled it out and washed it off. The outside looks great. However, the inside wasn't doing so well. I decided to fill the tank with the solution and do it directly inside it.

After an hour, I emptied the tank and checked it

I refilled it and gave it another hour. I checked it again

I'm not sure if the inside of this tank was too far gone or not. It was really bad before. It does look better and the petcock seems to flow now (it was rusted over before), but there is no way I could run gas through this.

Any suggestions?

 

[buckeye]

Thanks for sharing.
There are a couple of threads here pertaining to this.
I am a evap-o-rust kinda guy. Works for me.
That certainly is cheaper.


On the tank. Try putting a bunch of nuts and bolts or even bb's in it.
Shake the crap out of it. That will get that heavy stuff off.
Rince with gas, repeat.
Then see what you have. Your little science project might then, do the trick.:thumbsup:

 

[capguncowboy]

Thanks Buckeye. If you keep answering my questions I'm going to have to send you some money.

It would seem that putting metal into a metal gas tank and shaking it is asking for trouble, but I'm willing to try anything at this point.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[KustomKartKid]

Looks like you're doing it correctly...somepieces take longer to come clean...like 24 hrs or more.

As far as "risk free", if I'm not mistaken the process produces Hydrogen gas (think Hindenburg...:mellow...so keep it well vented or outdoors and away from any stray ignition sources.

 

[capguncowboy]

Looks like you're doing it correctly...somepieces take longer to come clean...like 24 hrs or more.

As far as "risk free", if I'm not mistaken the process produces Hydrogen gas (think Hindenburg...:mellow...so keep it well vented or outdoors and away from any stray ignition sources.

Yeah, I've got it out in the carport. There is no ignition source anywhere nearby.

When I said risk free, I was referring more to the likelihood that I'll damage a part.

 

[KustomKartKid]

The likely ignition source would be the battery charger leads but if your outside you should be fine...it's the people that are doing it down their basement that really need to be careful.

 

[ole4]

I like the oxalic acid powder the best. Dirt cheap on ebay and you mix a small amount with water and pour it in the tank and overnight the inside is clean. Only dopwnside is it will eat good metal as well but very slowly. so after it is cleaned you want to rinse good.

 

[buckeye]

I was gonna mention that too ole. Found the link I saved to remind me. This may be a old auction but, this is the product.

5 lb s Oxalic Acid Pure 99 6 Cleans Decks Driveways Crystals | eBay

 

[ole4]

I bought it when it was first posted here as the electrolysis was messy after using it. The 5 lbs I bought will last a lifetime. It only takes a couple of tablespoons per gallon.

 

[capguncowboy]

I was gonna mention that too ole. Found the link I saved to remind me. This may be a old auction but, this is the product.

5 lb s Oxalic Acid Pure 99 6 Cleans Decks Driveways Crystals | eBay

I'll have to pick some up. I'm a little leary about using Acid to clean stuff. I don't like the idea of not having a proper disposal facility nearby.

 

[Inventorpardue]

The tank will come out clean: reload with fresh electrolyte and a clean piece of steel or rebar. Better yet, try the chain thing (see tank link below).

Wrote and illustrated how to's on both ways to go:

Tank

Parts

KustomKartKid raises a good point. While Hydrogen gas is lighter than air, making it rise up and off the derusting setup, the rig does makes a tiny bit of it, the concentration is quite low and the gas isn't very pure. Still, outdoors is a good plan.

 

[capguncowboy]

The tank will come out clean: reload with fresh electrolyte and a clean piece of steel or rebar. Better yet, try the chain thing (see tank link below).

Wrote and illustrated how to's on both ways to go:

Tank

Parts

KustomKartKid raises a good point. While Hydrogen gas is lighter than air, making it rise up and off the derusting setup, the rig does makes a tiny bit of it, the concentration is quite low and the gas isn't very pure. Still, outdoors is a good plan.

That's clever. I was thinking eariler that it would be more effective if I could get more metal into the tank without grounding it out, but insulating the chain never crossed my mind. I'll have to give that a try tomorrow when I've got more light. Thanks!

Actually, the gas produced is pure. It's pure Oxygen and Pure Hydrogen. However, in an open space, the likelihood of it causing an explosion is very minute. I could see that being an issue in a small, airtight space over a long period of time though.

 

[T-Town Mini]

I did a tank not too long ago the same way: http://www.oldminibikes.com/forum/s...lysis-machine-picture-heavy-2.html#post827703

My tank wasn't crusted up as bad as yours is and it still took a couple days work rinsing out and cleaning off the rebar between rinsing.

It'll work...it's just going to take a long time to do it. Take the advice and get as much loose rust out before trying it again. For another tank I did I used a light chain to rattle around inside for cleaning the loose stuff.

Once it's clean you may want to use a tank sealer/liner. I've used POR-15 a few times with good results. The briggs tank I did in that link didn't need it but I've used it twice before for others.

Safety note: Be sure to unplug the battery charger first before removing the electrode clamps so that there's no chance for sparks. :scared:

 

[capguncowboy]

My tank has holes in it! :doah:

They're just pin holes. I suspect they've been there all along, but they've been covered with rust. The fact that they're just now leaking means the rust removal process is working, just not as swiftly as I would like.

Yesterday, I did put some nuts and washers into the tank and gave it a good shake for 5 minutes or so. It knocked a lot of the accumulated rust out, but the inside is still really rough, like the inside of broken concrete, but smaller.

Is there any way to safely patch the pin holes without a welder? I had thought about seeing if I could have a bladder made, but I think that would be time consuming and pricey.

 

[KustomKartKid]

Welcome to the world of vintage mini bikes where the fun of restoring rusted out junk is only surpassed by breaking down on them when you finally try to ride them.

Here's the stuff you will need:

http://www.amazon.com/Caswell-Epoxy...403106704&sr=8-1&keywords=caswell+tank+sealer

 

[Havasu Dave]

My tank has holes in it! :doah:

They're just pin holes. I suspect they've been there all along, but they've been covered with rust. The fact that they're just now leaking means the rust removal process is working, just not as swiftly as I would like.

Yesterday, I did put some nuts and washers into the tank and gave it a good shake for 5 minutes or so. It knocked a lot of the accumulated rust out, but the inside is still really rough, like the inside of broken concrete, but smaller.

Is there any way to safely patch the pin holes without a welder? I had thought about seeing if I could have a bladder made, but I think that would be time consuming and pricey.

Yeah, you can soap and water it and remove enough of the fumes for safe welding. Maybe hit the outside with braze. I wouldn't hesitate to use my MIG, then grind.

I have had great luck with Ken's tank sealer, and there are two others out there that are proven. The key is PREP the tank. Important.

Also, as neat as your electrolysis design is, I'd soak the whole darn thing in my 3:1 muratic acid/water mixture. I have had great luck with that. It's CHEAP too. Available at pool supply stores, or perhaps masonry type chandlers.

Or....get a new tank. :shrug:

 

[capguncowboy]

So I bought another tank -- It was cheap enough that I couldn't pass it up.

I'm not giving up on the other one though. I decided I would try something else. With it leaking through pin holes, it's impossible to keep it filled while it is under construction. I put it back into the bucket and hooked it up as normal, but this time, I suspended a positive lead with a long bolt on it inside the tank. Within a few minutes, it was already producing more of that rust I want to see. I haven't checked it yet, but I suspect that it will be a lot better on the inside when I do.

Since I got the new tank, I'm going to continue experimenting with this one until I get it figured out.

 

[rmm727]

I need to try out a setup like this some day. Today I experimented with phosphoric acid and was pleased with how quickly it worked. I think I like it better than muriatic acid though I dont think its near as strong.

 

[Newoldstock]

I need to try out a setup like this some day. Today I experimented with phosphoric acid and was pleased with how quickly it worked. I think I like it better than muriatic acid though I dont think its near as strong.

Phosphoric is weaker and slower, but it converts raw iron to Iron phosphate and this acts to protect the steel after you have blown off the rust.

It also can look real good in the hands of an expert with the process......
This is called French gray, and its done with Phosphoric.

Muriatic is the acid that keeps on giving.
Giving you rust that is.....

Unlike the Phospohoric it will not make any meaningful bond to the steel and will continue the rusting process.
It will go right on desolving the steell once the rust is gone too

Some reading....
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums...ad&PHPSESSID=0bffbea8e40dd06d53422668850aaeb5

When I worked at the steel mill we used Muriatic, sulphuric and Phosphoric acids are different times and places.....
As I recall the sheet steel for cars was done with the phosphoric to lend a little rust protection ( but still easy to paint )

 

[Havasu Dave]

Muriatic is the acid that keeps on giving.
Giving you rust that is.

I guess I have been lucky with the 50 or so parts I've used it on. Once removed from the acid/water solution, I soak it in soda ash and water. About $5 for a ten pound bag.

Then I rinse with fresh water, and dry in the sun after toweling off excess.

I'm not in to rust inhibiting residue, as I'm either polishing, painting or chroming.