Is it a Lil Indian

Zooming993

Active Member
#1
I bought this bike thinking it was a Lil Indian but now I'm wondering if it is. When I compare my bike to other Lil Indian's I don't see the handlebar cross brace, the fork axle mounting points are different, the fork spring looks smaller and it doesn't have a front fender brace. I do see a serial number (40404) on the right rear axle brace, is this where Lil Indian S/N's were stamped? So if it's not a Lil Indian, what is it?

Thanks 20191218_144348.jpg 20191218_144504.jpg 20191218_144331.jpg 20191218_144522.jpg 20191218_144541.jpg
 

Addicted 2 Minis

Well-Known Member
#2
Most everything about it says 1968 Lil Indian Century Series 400-500. The steer tube does appear to be too big and the fork lowers have had some sort of modification. The strap going across the handlebars was an add on as well as the rear most seat strap. The serial number is what gets me, there weren't 40,000 made by 1968, my 1970 is in the 22,000 range. The rear wheel is a Lil Indian mag and the front one is an Azusa Tri-Star.
 

Addicted 2 Minis

Well-Known Member
#3
Okay, well that was fun, I tried editing my post and my time expired mid edit. What I was going to add is that the serial number on my 69 is in the 34,000 range so they must have reset it for my 70 to be in the 22,000 range. I'll post some pics of my 68 for comparison.
 

Addicted 2 Minis

Well-Known Member
#4
Here's a picture of my 1968 frame. The rectangle area shows where the engine plate is welded to the frame. The weld went from the frame seam back up through 1969, 1970 and up it went from the seam forward. The circled area on the engine plate is where they started putting a whole in it in 1969, in 1969 they went to Tecumseh engines. I also circled the steering stem, notice that it is smaller than yours, yours appears to have been modified. My serial number is in the 15,000 range on the 1968 frame and in the 34,000 range on the 1969. The serial number on yours would probably put it in the 1969 range with the wrong engine plate but seeing how the welds look original, I doubt it has been changed. I am including pictures of my blue 1969 as reference and a picture of your bike with the forks where modified.

68 Lil Indian engine plate.jpeg 68 Lil Indian serial.jpeg Lil Indian 500_16.jpeg Lil Indian 500_009.jpeg Lil Indian 500_015.jpeg 20191218_144331.jpg
 

Addicted 2 Minis

Well-Known Member
#5
Sorry to jump in once again but the more I look at yours, the more I'm beginning to think it's a 69 with a new engine plate. On both of my 68 bikes the frame tubes touch where the steer tube is welded on. On both of my 69 bikes there is a gap between the frame tubes, unfortunately I don't have a good shot of the 69 bikes from the top but I do have one of my 68. The first two pictures are of the 68 and the last is of my 69 from the front. The previous owner drilled a hole in it for ease of oiling as he had a homemade bushing setup in it. Looking at the front views, you can still tell that the frame tubes are further apart on the 69.

67-68 Lil Indian_004.jpeg 67-68 Lil Indian_008.jpeg Lil Indian 500_008.jpeg
 

Zooming993

Active Member
#6
Sorry to jump in once again but the more I look at yours, the more I'm beginning to think it's a 69 with a new engine plate. On both of my 68 bikes the frame tubes touch where the steer tube is welded on. On both of my 69 bikes there is a gap between the frame tubes, unfortunately I don't have a good shot of the 69 bikes from the top but I do have one of my 68. The first two pictures are of the 68 and the last is of my 69 from the front. The previous owner drilled a hole in it for ease of oiling as he had a homemade bushing setup in it. Looking at the front views, you can still tell that the frame tubes are further apart on the 69.

View attachment 253908 View attachment 253909 View attachment 253911
Addicted 2 Minis,

Thanks for the detailed explanation of what I bought, I couldn't have asked for more. So from what you've shared, I did buy a true Lil Indian but you're not entirely sure of the year it was manufactured. I'm not as concerned with the model year as I was that it was a Lil Indian. So if I understood correctly it's a Lil Indian Century Series 400-500, 68/69 model year?

Thanks again for all your help.

Michael
 

markus

Well-Known Member
#7
40,000 area is in the 1970 timeframe, they recorded between 37k and 46K in that production year. those forks arent lil indian at all, the axle mount design as pointed out as well as the holes pre drilled in the tree/fork plates indicate its from something else as LI's has a single center hole (headtube as pointed out above is a replacement too). Lil Indian were not built very well, the engine plates peeled off the frames easy so there is a good chance that has been replaced, and maybe even moved slightly to better accommodate say a large tank briggs since that would have been the Tecumseh era. So fitment of whatever engine you plan to run may be in order before you do anything to make sure tank fits and clears in the forward or rear positions depending on your engine choice.
 
#12
Okay so my bike is a Lil Indian but if I were concerned with originality I would need to replace the forks. In addition to the forks not be original the headtube isn't stock. With this in mind would someone please tell me what the proper headtube length is?

Thanks
 
#13
If @markus , @OND or someone else doesn't have one to measure for you, I'll see if my wife or daughter can measure one of mine as I'm overseas right now... without my addiction!, Hahahaha. If you are concerned with bringing it back original, you will need new forks, cut the rear most seat strap off and weld a new steer tube on. If you are super critical about originality you'll have to cut a hole in the engine plate to match the later bikes.
The hole serves no purpose other than an alignment hole for their welding jigs perhaps, nobody really knows why it's there but it is. Knowing the year is kinda crucial on your bike as the forks are different on 69 and 70 bikes. On the 69 bikes the bend in the bars is about an inch above the upper fork plate whereas on the 70 and up the bend is just above the upper fork plate. Oh yeah, you'll need a period correct Tecumseh too.
 

Attachments

#14
I have my 1970 serial number 22003 on the work bench at this time.The fork tube is 3 3/4” long. My frame is all original and never been welded on. If you have anything you would like me to check this would be good time.
 

markus

Well-Known Member
#15
If @markus , @OND or someone else doesn't have one to measure for you, I'll see if my wife or daughter can measure one of mine as I'm overseas right now... without my addiction!, Hahahaha. If you are concerned with bringing it back original, you will need new forks, cut the rear most seat strap off and weld a new steer tube on. If you are super critical about originality you'll have to cut a hole in the engine plate to match the later bikes.
The hole serves no purpose other than an alignment hole for their welding jigs perhaps, nobody really knows why it's there but it is. Knowing the year is kinda crucial on your bike as the forks are different on 69 and 70 bikes. On the 69 bikes the bend in the bars is about an inch above the upper fork plate whereas on the 70 and up the bend is just above the upper fork plate. Oh yeah, you'll need a period correct Tecumseh too.
i'm out! No more lil indian bikes here anymore. Sorry!
 
#16
I've got a 1971/72 I can measure for you tomorrow. Mine is a Tecumseh frame and yours is the earlier Briggs frame , my serial # is 54076 . Just let me know If I can help you in any way .
 
#17
Thanks for all the help and offers to take measurements. Based on the dimension provided by Jjtwospeed, I may have a problem, mine measures 4 1/4". So assuming mine should be 3 3/4" that means I'll need to also change the headtube and to be honest I don't know if I'm up to that. I guess the next question would be if I could find the correct forks, do you think I can cut a 1/2" off the headtube to fit the correct forks?
Thks
 
#18
I've got a 1971/72 I can measure for you tomorrow. Mine is a Tecumseh frame and yours is the earlier Briggs frame , my serial # is 54076 . Just let me know If I can help you in any way .
If you could measure your frame/headtube that would be great, just to be sure.
Thks
 
#19
I've got a 1971/72 I can measure for you tomorrow. Mine is a Tecumseh frame and yours is the earlier Briggs frame , my serial # is 54076 . Just let me know If I can help you in any way .
Thanks for all the help and offers to take measurements. Based on the dimension provided by Jjtwospeed, I may have a problem, mine measures 4 1/4". So assuming mine should be 3 3/4" that means I'll need to also change the headtube and to be honest I don't know if I'm up to that. I guess the next question would be if I could find the correct forks, do you think I can cut a 1/2" off the headtube to fit the correct forks?
Thks
The head tube that was welded on your bike is also of incorrect diameter, the original used bushings pictured below.

Fork Bushings.jpg
 
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