its time to stand up and heard not sit and be quiet

[Oldsalt]

Crazy people are going to kill people, that's just the way it is. If you ban assault rifles and somehow got every stinkin one of them out of the hands people that posses them, pistols and hunting rifles would be used instead. If guns were banned and there were none (Fat chance), fertilizer and diesel fuel would be used, and I don't think they will ban either of those. And to my recollection, two jet planes killed more than a couple a thousand people on 9/11, again, I don't think an airplane ban is going to happen. The problem I have with Assault weapons, is they were designed to kill large amount of people in a short period of time, and make it too easy for the Lunatics to do what they need to do before somebody can stop them. I was raised around guns, own a few, OK more than a few. But I have no use whatsoever for an Assault rifle!

Why should Assault rifles be available to the general public and not just to Military and Law enforcement?

One of the problems [for instance]is that a Rugger 10/22 by commonly used federal definition is an assault rifle even though it has no clip [as such] and it is a .22! The uninformed is only worked-up about how a firearm LOOKS. A semi-automatic shotgun [a handsome, unobtrusive duck gun] loaded with slugs and buck would be a much better choice for such use than an assault rifle. A much better 'weapon' would be a stolen gasoline tanker ran into the 'target' then the valves opened and set ablaze. No matter how you cut the pie the government cannot be trusted to preserve out rights as outlined in our Constitution although each and every legislator swears when taking office that he 'will defend and preserve the Constitution'.

Even with that rant I have to agree that I, like you, don't have too much use for an 'assault' rifle. However, I did buy a nice 12 Ga. Saiga with a 20 round drum clip but have never fired it.

 

[Itype2slo]

Rugers are tricky the 10/22 is technicly a carbine of some sort. Its all in the wording. I have a ruger mini 14 which is a ranch rifle. I do have a 20 clip. Had a folding stock (got rid of it a while back) but its both a badass hunting rifle and assault rifle. All in the wording.

 

[dajsnipe]

Here's why...

The second amendment was never intended to keep you safe from a crack head coming through your bedroom window. The second amendment was to insure that the People would never again be subjected to tyranny by the government. Ours, or someone elses.

A balance of power of sorts. There's no way an equally armed army can overtake millions of equally armed citizens, so they won't even try.

Now, give the army M16's, and limit the citizens to shotguns, & you have a problem. It is that balance of power that makes us different from any other nation in the world. Take assault weapons away from citizens of Syria and replace then with shotguns. How would things look there as to prospects for freedom?

US citizens have "certain inalienable rights" that people have died for. And yet some are willing to cast them aside with abandon. They are truly clueless, and it saddens me.

If you're ever in the area, stop by the Veterans' Cemetery in north Phoenix. At #30-152 you'll find a grave marker for a USAF SMSGT with the wording... WWII Korea Vietnam. Leave a tall can of Bud (for God's sake not Bud Lite) there.. he'd like that.



A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

well said and worth reposting :hammer:

 

[Bikerscum]

Rugers are tricky the 10/22 is technicly a carbine of some sort. Its all in the wording. I have a ruger mini 14 which is a ranch rifle. I do have a 20 clip. Had a folding stock (got rid of it a while back) but its both a badass hunting rifle and assault rifle. All in the wording.

I have a Mini 14 with factory folding stock & 40 round clip I bought 30 years ago. Still have the receipt. The action is now in a Houge synthetic stock 'cause the original package is now illegal in kalifornia. I can lay the folding stock next to the gun in it's new stock & I'm ok. Put the action in it's original stock & I'm a felon.

The mag is ok because I bought it pre ban, but I don't have to prove I did.

So I have a .223 semi auto with a 40 round clip, hundreds of rounds of ammo & kalifornia is ok with that. Just not with a folding stock because folding stocks kill people.

More great news... Diane Frankenstein has a daughter just entering politics.

 

[Neck]

Now, give the army M16's, and limit the citizens to shotguns, & you have a problem. It is that balance of power that makes us different from any other nation in the world. Take assault weapons away from citizens of Syria and replace then with shotguns. How would things look there as to prospects for freedom?

I don't buy this, Not for one minute! What chance does Joe Blow or a whole neighborhood of Joe Blows with an Assault Rifles have against an Apache, an M1 Abrams, an FA 18, a Stealth Bomber, or even a Grenade launcher? Come on! I honestly don't think the second amendment was written with Assault weapons in mind.

 

[Beal]

Now, give the army M16's, and limit the citizens to shotguns, & you have a problem. It is that balance of power that makes us different from any other nation in the world. Take assault weapons away from citizens of Syria and replace then with shotguns. How would things look there as to prospects for freedom?

I don't buy this, Not for one minute! What chance does Joe Blow or a whole neighborhood of Joe Blows with an Assault Rifles have against an Apache, an M1 Abrams, an FA 18, a Stealth Bomber, or even a Grenade launcher? Come on! I honestly don't think the second amendment was written with Assault weapons in mind.

Depends on the situation really... for a few of those obstacle anyways, not all that sure what a person would do against airborne threats.
:shrug:

{EDIT} Oh, and dont forget the elbow grease for a strategic advantage. :laugh:

 

[Itype2slo]

I have a Mini 14 with factory folding stock & 40 round clip I bought 30 years ago. Still have the receipt. The action is now in a Houge synthetic stock 'cause the original package is now illegal in kalifornia. I can lay the folding stock next to the gun in it's new stock & I'm ok. Put the action in it's original stock & I'm a felon.

The mag is ok because I bought it pre ban, but I don't have to prove I did.

So I have a .223 semi auto with a 40 round clip, hundreds of rounds of ammo & kalifornia is ok with that. Just not with a folding stock because folding stocks kill people.

More great news... Diane Frankenstein has a daughter just entering politics.

A folding stock can make a long rifle almost concealable. I can see that as something to maybe be concerned about.

 

[turftech 1]

I just want to weigh in and agree with this thread. It is 100% time to stand up. The second amendment was added precisely because the "colonists" had just defeated the largest, best trained, best equipped standing army in the world, and had done it, by in large with an armed citizenry.

While it may appear that an armed citizenry would stand no chance against a trained military, history does not bear that out. Look at Vietnam, we dropped more bombs (in both number and mega-tons) on Vietnam than were dropped during WWII in all of Europe, we had air superiority, but lacked the political will needed to counter guerrilla tactics. Look at Afghanistan, the Soviets dumped thousands of troops and billions of dollars into fighting the Afghan rebel forces, who were armed primarily with just small arms, and after years and years finally gave up. In WWII the Axis powers failed to take Switzerland, why? Because the Swiss citizenry is armed, every time Nazi forces forged into Switzerland they took casualties to sniper fire. Hitler called Switzerland "a boil on the face of Europe."

Could the citizens stand up to a military armed with nukes, F-18 hornets and tanks? No, not really, certainly not man to man. BUT... can you subdue an armed populace into servitude with F-18 hornets, tanks and such? Not easily, and not without inflicting massive damage. How many Americans would the average US soldier be willing to kill? How many killings would the populace put up with?

The framers knew what they were doing. The right to keep and bear arms comes right after the right to free speech and the right to assemble. It was THAT important in their minds, and it was not only 'not to be violated' or 'not to be repealed', but not to even be "infringed".

The few scattered incidents of gun violence we experience, (as sad as they are) are a drop in the bucket, compared to the hundreds of millions of unarmed people who have been rounded up and killed by their own governments, just in the last century.

Giving up our right to bear arms, or allowing it to be infringed for the sake of safety is like straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel.

 

[buckeye]

Extremely well said!!!!!!!

 

[Neck]

[QUOTE=turftech

Yes, very well said and I could not agree with you more! I am grateful for the second amendment. I just feel, Assault Weapons, along with the Tanks, Fighter Planes and other military resources, belong in the hands of our Military and Law Enforcement, not with the Public.

 

[WLB]

It just amazes me that there are people who think that someone who is willing to murder will obey ANY type of gun law. How long would it take an individual to shorten a barrel, saw off a stock and make it a folder, or make a 20 round magazine. Or make a complete gun. Guns are old technology. They were made with hand tools for several hundred years and can be made from hand tools again. With today's proliferation of CNC machinery just how hard would it be to write a program and make a pistol. Or several hundred of them. Semi auto and full auto would be the easiest to make. Explosives are even easier to make. If you can make a minibike you can surely make a firearm. How many firearms are made in prison each year.

I would certainly like for me and my family to be safe from nutcases and just plain mean people but no amount of government laws can assure that. The ultimate responsibility for my personal safety resides with me. No nanny state will protect me or even wants to. Can anyone really believe that Diane Feinstein gives a damn about those dead kids. According to Yahoo news (I know that is almost an oxymoron) Ms Feinstein has had her bill written for more than a year just waiting for such a tragedy to push it through while people were grieving. Her and Bloomberg, Libermann, Schumer, Blumenthal, Soros didn't even have the decency to wait until the victims were buried before they started their agenda.

I am very suspicious of people who want to disarm law abiding citizens. History has shown that the disarmed are not treated well. Why would people like George Soros spend hundreds of millions of dollars in an effort to disarm the law abiding. I can't believe that a man smart enough to make billions of dollars is dumb enough to believe that disarming the law abiding will reduce crime.

We have indeed come to a crossroads again. We can fight for our rights or raise our heads every few minutes and say baaaaaa, baaaaa, and go on grazing.

 

[Beal]

Yes, very well said and I could not agree with you more! I am grateful for the second amendment. I just feel, Assault Weapons, along with the Tanks, Fighter Planes and other military resources, belong in the hands of our Military and Law Enforcement, not with the Public.

You have to admit, driving a tank to work would be awesome. :thumbsup:


Personally, I dont mind people are able to have semi automatic assault rifles, my brother has one, I think its fun to shoot. Problem can be when people have a bunch of 30rnd mags sittin loaded around and ready to go, I see no reason for that, that might just persuade me to casually leave their company. :laugh:

If I had the money, and had the firearms that are practical for hunting, I wouldnt mind owning some sort of semi automatic rifle. Not a necessary addition to the collection... just kind of a fun convenient way to send some lead down the range to the target.

Kinda like having e-start on our 5hp briggs. The pull stat is perfectly fine, but the e-start is more fun. (Maybe not the best comparison, but I think it works :shrug: )

Anywho, If Im ever to get a semi automatic rifle, wont be an AR type as I dont really like them too much. Id be more interested in something like a M1 Garand. I think they just look cool. Atleast thats my humble opinion. :thumbsup:

I can understand why people would want a ban of sorts, but then its things like that that can hurt the law abiding citizens.
Crooked people will do whatever they can to do their dirty deeds, banning guns and having "gun free zones" is a bunch of bull. Taking away my ability to defend myself and those I love care about is such a great way to protect us. "Please wait mr. murderer/thug/theif/rapist, wait for the police to come defend me." or *bang* say hellow to my friendly neighborhood criminal defense" Personally, I like the second choice better, how bout you? Yeah, sure theres times when someone else is needed, but the time it would take for them to get here Im a goner.
Long as the government doesnt do something stupid, Ill be more content. If the fact that there is only a small majority of anti gun people compared to pro gun people is true, thats a bit more comforting. :shrug:

Something to pray about...

{End ramble}

 

[toomanytoys]

I have heard, no confirmation, that he had a 9mm pistol and an AR-15. An AR-15 is not fully automatic. Its a semiauto rifle with an actually relatively small caliber compared to your average hunting rifle.

The average American citizen does not own an automatic rifle. Depending on your state laws you can own what is called a "class 3" item. Class 3 falls into short barreled rifles, suppressors, and select fire rifles/pistols. Yes, techincally anyone with deep pockets can go purchase these. People who are doing these shootings are not going in and dropping several thousand dollars on a legally purchased class 3 item. They are buying them on the black market. Also the average criminal isn't going to go down to the gun shop and purchase a 1,500 dollar AR-15 to shoot people with.

I personally own a suppressed 10/22. Which is pretty awesome by the way.

The brady bill defined an assualt rifle as.

"A rifle with any of the following features: Semi automatic, detachable magazine, bayonet lug, pistol grip, collapsible stock, threaded barrel(flash suppression)"

A ruger 10/22 would be an assualt rifle. It has the capability to accept 30 round magazines, you can put a pistol grip and collapasble stock on it!

Do some research about what types of weapons are most used in crimes. Seems to be a trend of 9mm hand guns. Am I saying ban pistols? No, that will solve nothing.

I personally own 4 Colt AR-15s and 1 Bushmaster. There is 5000 rounds of .223 in the cabinet, with 10 loaded 30 round mags for each AR-15. Am I crazy? Actually yes, I have papers. I am Bi-Polar.

There are 102 guns in my collection. From AR-15s, AK-47s, AK-74s, Steyr Aug, M1A1, and many many more. Thousands of dollars invested. 102 doesn't include the pistols, of which there are 17.

I have the right to own whatever firearm I choose, even if I don't need it. I'm sorry but you can stick your 'no one needs a (insert gun here)" where the sun doesn't shine. Considering I hunt small game with my AR-15 set up for long range shooting, its a hunting rifle to me.

Lets look at something else that is deadly to everyone!

I personally have no use for drinking beer or any alcohol. Lets ban that because how many people a year are killed by drunk drivers? How many innocent children have been slain or left orphans because of a drunk driver. Or how about the guy who gets drunk and beats the living crap out of his wife and children? OH WAIT! THEY MAKE HOW MUCH OFF OF TAXES ON ALCOHOL? WAIT THATS OK THEN! No I really don't believe in banning alcohol but seriously though, think about how it effects peoples lives.

Also, I am a strong believer that we should ban water. 100% of people who drink it or have been in contact with water has died. Think about it.

 

[metal man]

defined an assualt rifle as.

"A rifle with any of the following features: Semi automatic, detachable magazine, bayonet lug, pistol grip, collapsible stock, threaded barrel(flash suppression)"

and there is the danger any gun could be tossed in the pile with a assualt weapon just in how it looks and there all semi auto .
and the thing on the sbr and sbs (short barrle rifle and short barrel shotgun ) its not al the much to get one a few permits . ya get the fed one $200 tax that you have to pass a test for , a sig from your local law chef pluss getting a 10 card (finger prints) lots of back ground checks and parted work . but ya never hear of one used in a crime . just some yaho hacking one off in the bed room and going for it . illegal as hell what they did but crooks just dont seem to care .

 

[ryan68bug]

Now, give the army M16's, and limit the citizens to shotguns, & you have a problem. It is that balance of power that makes us different from any other nation in the world. Take assault weapons away from citizens of Syria and replace then with shotguns. How would things look there as to prospects for freedom?

I don't buy this, Not for one minute! What chance does Joe Blow or a whole neighborhood of Joe Blows with an Assault Rifles have against an Apache, an M1 Abrams, an FA 18, a Stealth Bomber, or even a Grenade launcher? Come on! I honestly don't think the second amendment was written with Assault weapons in mind.

I realize a previous post called me out for being uninformed or not fully informed, and I am humble enough to acknowledge that, yes, by no stretch would I consider myself an expert on the subject and all its associated laws.
That being said, I agree with Henk. I trust those trained professionally in these weapons far more than the average Joe Six Pack who gets a chubby and a giggle out of watching dirt fly on the side of a mountain. Again, just my opinion.
If they're legal for private citizens to own, then by all means, I support the citizen's right to do so legally. Just because I don't think they're appropriate in the hands of private, untrained (professionally, that is) citizens, doesn't mean I believe the laws should be uprooted. I'm admittedly not much of a gun aficianado, but have no malice against those who are.
It's absurd, in my opinion, to think that the average citizen is going to be effective in fighting off the government with his own personal arsenal. Legal assault weapons or not, the military is far more mighty than any private militia could ever hope to be... and I would foresee the government utilizing the military to enforce its wishes, whenever this apocalyptic government takeover should occur as some folks seem completely bent on believing is inevitable.

 

[jbrewton]

Here's my take-

The original commandments/amendments/laws were in no way ready for our species as a whole. Good ideas from 2000 years ago to the colonies 230 years ago and so on just don't totally fit perfectly in today's world. Sad but true.

You just can't compare a colonial farmer needing a pitchfork to hold off the British to today's American wanting a AR15 if he so chooses.

Don't get me wrong, I love my guns and plan on keeping them, but no one has invaded my property for quite some time!

 

[toomanytoys]

defined an assualt rifle as.

"A rifle with any of the following features: Semi automatic, detachable magazine, bayonet lug, pistol grip, collapsible stock, threaded barrel(flash suppression)"

and there is the danger any gun could be tossed in the pile with a assualt weapon just in how it looks and there all semi auto .
and the thing on the sbr and sbs (short barrle rifle and short barrel shotgun ) its not al the much to get one a few permits . ya get the fed one $200 tax that you have to pass a test for , a sig from your local law chef pluss getting a 10 card (finger prints) lots of back ground checks and parted work . but ya never hear of one used in a crime . just some yaho hacking one off in the bed room and going for it . illegal as hell what they did but crooks just dont seem to care .

I went through it all to get my suppressed 10/22. Its is a hassle for it but one I'll willingly do. Its such a neat toy.

I haven't been invaded by the British yet but those raccoons who get in my trash wear masksand I think they my be terrorist.

 

[Newoldstock]

I like guns!

I would like to have lots of them.
And an RPG-7
And a few other things.

But the reason is not because I am a responsible sportsman but because I think I will need them someday.
When the revolution starts.....

Nutty as hell reasoning eh?
( But I actualy would like the RPG and a Kalash lots of can of amo too ).

A measure of gun contol may be required in the USA.
Lets face it too many are leaking out and getting into the wrong hands.
Throwing more guns at such a problem wil not help.

Violent crime up here at least has been in decline for a long tim up here.
But it has nothing to do with gun control and everything to do with a society getting older.
Generaly it is us older responsible types who are not the problem
Therefore it seems more important to restrict firearm ownership to the majority who are responsible ( not completely age dependent but clearly a factor for some ) and get the guns out of the hands of looneys and criminals.

How do you do that?
Not sure...

Also guns do not protect you from your govermernt.
They will not prevent your military from talikng away your stuff..
Do you realy think your own would take up arms against you?
That's sad

No the real thing you fear is not the army or the goverment.
Its class warfare.....
Govermernt the army would split along the same lines.
That should provide you with a measure of comfort because maybe the govermernt is full of fat cats.
The army is full of your kids ( no real contest there puts the revolution and world goverment BS to rest now doesn't it )...

 

[hemigremmy]

Went to Dunham's tonight to pick up some .22LR ammo bc I have a coupon and there wasn't a .22LR shell to be found in the store!!! There was probably 10-12 filing out paperwork on the counters and boxes so they could buy a gun and more people waiting to be helped. The gun racks in Dunham's looked pretty empty too, even for Christmas it was almost bare. A buddy emailed me today and said his boss went to Walmart to grab some 9mm ammo and said it was packed there with people buying guns and ammo there too.

It has begun!!!!

 

[Bikerscum]

Now, give the army M16's, and limit the citizens to shotguns, & you have a problem. It is that balance of power that makes us different from any other nation in the world. Take assault weapons away from citizens of Syria and replace then with shotguns. How would things look there as to prospects for freedom?

I don't buy this, Not for one minute! What chance does Joe Blow or a whole neighborhood of Joe Blows with an Assault Rifles have against an Apache, an M1 Abrams, an FA 18, a Stealth Bomber, or even a Grenade launcher? Come on! I honestly don't think the second amendment was written with Assault weapons in mind.

Of course the second amendment wasn't written with assault weapons in mind, the founding fathers couldn't imagine a lever action Winchester let alone an Ak-47. That's not the point.... they knew a free people would need the means to keep themselves free from the government, whatever that may be.

As for what an armed citizenry could do against planes, tanks, etc... you might be surprised. There are an estimated 3 million assault weapons in the US. How many active duty troops are there? You cannot win a war from above as history has shown, it takes grunts on the ground.

I was at the gun range the other day shooting my competition airgun. At the other end of the range a guy was shooting a .50 BMG. The earth stopped rotating briefly when he shot it. And perfectly legal to buy, no permit or anything required... just a short waiting period I believe. Ask someone in the military what a couple of those might do to a helicopter.

Speaking of airguns...

In Scotland, after the first of the year, it will be illegal to even own that without a license. And to get a license you must show cause. Suppression doesn't just happen in third world countries. And it's happening here, right now. And we are electing and re-electing the people that are doing it. I just don't understand it.

You didn't answer my question of how things might be going for the Syrian rebels right now if they only had shotguns. And, BTW.... their government has planes, tanks, helicopters...