Lighting Coil Questions

[massacre]

Hello,
I have searched here and found some threads but many of the links are dead.
Basically when it comes to 12v DC, I am very experienced using it and wiring things up. I understand it pretty well and don’t usually have many problems.

This is the first lighting coil I have ever installed. So working with AC power is something I am not very familiar with.

My questions are-

1. I am thinking about getting a bridge rectifier to change the AC over to DC. Are there any dangers/precautions/ suggestions for doing this? What are the benefits, if any and the negatives, if any?

2. I have a 12v headlight bulb and a 6v headlight bulb. I am pretty sure my tail/brake light is 12v. Do I need to run the same 12v bulb on the headlight too?

3. What size fuse should I use for these lights? I am assuming putting a fuse in the circuit is a good idea. Does AC or DC matter as far as fuses go?

My plan is to install (2) toggle switches on the top of the headlight housing. 1 switch will be to turn the head/tail lights on, the other toggle will be for high beam.
So 1 of the power leads will power both the headlight and the taillight. Is this a bad way to do it? The other power lead is for the brake light.
Again AC power is foreign to me, so even though something seems like a good idea, I really have no idea if it really is a good idea or not. Lmao
I obviously do not want to damage anything of fry bulbs or wires.

Thanks and have a nice day

 

[Havasu Dave]

Hello,
I have searched here and found some threads but many of the links are dead.
Basically when it comes to 12v DC, I am very experienced using it and wiring things up. I understand it pretty well and don’t usually have many problems.

This is the first lighting coil I have ever installed. So working with AC power is something I am not very familiar with.

My questions are-

1. I am thinking about getting a bridge rectifier to change the AC over to DC. Are there any dangers/precautions/ suggestions for doing this? What are the benefits, if any and the negatives, if any?

The only reason to run a rectifier is if you want to charge a battery, or use a DC component.

2. I have a 12v headlight bulb and a 6v headlight bulb. I am pretty sure my tail/brake light is 12v. Do I need to run the same 12v bulb on the headlight too?

Tail light should be 1157 which is 12 volts. I have ran the 6 volt version, which is 1154 which gives you a brighter tail and brake lamp at less than full RPM- which is about 10 volts. No, you don't have to match bulbs with voltage. Front bulb should be about 35 Watts.

3. What size fuse should I use for these lights? I am assuming putting a fuse in the circuit is a good idea. Does AC or DC matter as far as fuses go?

AC and DC voltage do not matter for incandescent bulbs, or fuses. Personally, I never worried about a fuse with these simple, low voltage systems. It is rated at 3 amps, so if I were going to install a fuse, I'd run a 3 amp fuse on each leg. 3.5 would be perfect for the headlamp, using 10VAC @ 35watts.

My plan is to install (2) toggle switches on the top of the headlight housing. 1 switch will be to turn the head/tail lights on, the other toggle will be for high beam.
So 1 of the power leads will power both the headlight and the taillight. Is this a bad way to do it? The other power lead is for the brake light.

One lead powers head lamp, and one powers tail and brake. Run the wire to the on/off switch, (SPST) and it will go to the common (middle) terminal on your bright dim switch. (SPDT) Then one lead to bright, one lead to dim. Look up the abbreviations when you are buying your switches. And easier way to run the head lamp is On-Off-On (DPDT) Then you only need one.

Again AC power is foreign to me, so even though something seems like a good idea, I really have no idea if it really is a good idea or not. Lmao I obviously do not want to damage anything of fry bulbs or wires.

In the case of incandescent lamps, AC and DC theory is the same.

Thanks and have a nice day

 

[ole4]

Are you talking Tecumseh or some other engine? Techumseh lighted mini bike engines used two coils with a common ground to the engine so each coil is independent. Clone lighting coils are both, single coil grounded to engine and dual coil brings out both AC lines not grounded to engine.

 

[Havasu Dave]

Are you talking Tecumseh or some other engine? Techumseh lighted mini bike engines used two coils with a common ground to the engine so each coil is independent. Clone lighting coils are both, single coil grounded to engine and dual coil brings out both AC lines not grounded to engine.

He was referring to the Tecumseh coils Ole, that is why I answered him like I did. (HS50)

 

[Fisher1983]

Are clone lighting coils similar? I havent pulled the flywheel to see them, but I see 2 wires coming out, going into a rectifier on my MM-B212. Will a lighting coil with rectifier charge a battery? Or, do you need an actual charging coil? My bike has only a headlight with a switch. But, I want to build a street legal lighting kit for it over winter.

 

[massacre]

Thanks for the commendation of the DPDT switch, hadn’t even considered that. I was going to run (2) SPST switches.
Also thanks for the # for the 6v brake/tail bulb, I think I may run 6v bulbs for brighter lights at lower RPM.

I had read that bulbs last longer with DC voltage compared to AC, and that the light may be more consistent with DC versus AC, that is why I asked about the rectifier. But if it is strictly for charging, I don’t think this coil puts out enough to charge a battery, would need a charging coil for that.

Yes, it’s a Techumseh lighting coil.

I temporarily wired everything up, and everything works. I split one of the leads into 2 wires and sent 1 to head and 1 to tail light. The other lead went to brake switch and brake light.
My taillight has 2 leads coming out, 1 is for tail and the other is for brake. So I figure I need to power both of those leads separately to get it to work correctly.

Since I split that one lead, does that mean that the voltage is also split? If so I may change it so that the headlight gets its own dedicated lead, since seeing what is in front of me seems more important than having super bright taillight lol

 

[Havasu Dave]

I temporarily wired everything up, and everything works. I split one of the leads into 2 wires and sent 1 to head and 1 to tail light. The other lead went to brake switch and brake light.
My taillight has 2 leads coming out, 1 is for tail and the other is for brake. So I figure I need to power both of those leads separately to get it to work correctly.

Since I split that one lead, does that mean that the voltage is also split? If so I may change it so that the headlight gets its own dedicated lead, since seeing what is in front of me seems more important than having super bright taillight lol

You wired your system up like Rupp did, so you can call it good.

You also have the option of using one of the outputs only for head lamp, and the other output for tail and brake. One of the leads on your brake light switch is the input side- either side will work, and that "powers" the brake switch. Then a jumper wire is ran from the power lead on the brake switch to the rear light, and the wire coming off the other side of the switch goes to your brake filament. So one green wire from your alternator powers both rear filaments, where it is branched with a jumper, with one of them going through the brake switch, and the other bypassing it. This gives you more head lamp power, but less distinction on your brake light between brake and tail. This is how I did it on a Cat Endura. But what you did is also correct.
.

 

[massacre]

Ok i kinda get it but I don’t think my brake light switch works that way. It’s a homemade deal and the switch is closed normally.
I can just try splitting the tail and brake and give the headlight its own lead. Seems safer that way.

The Rupp diagram I found had 1 lead going to headlight switch, then a wire from headlight switch to tail.
Is that any different than splitting the lead? Again AC is different and maybe that is a better scenario.
I can always test it and see what works best

Thanks again Dave your your helpful responses

 

[massacre]

Think I am going to have to just try different stuff and see what works best.

Edit: Dave I think I see what you are saying now. Run one lead from the coil to the input side of the switch, then also connect the tail light wire to the input side of the switch. Then run the brake light wire to the other side of the switch.

Pretty cool way to do it, like you said it may change the difference in brightness between tail and brake but I’m willing to try it out and see if I like it

 

[Havasu Dave]

Think I am going to have to just try different stuff and see what works best.

Edit: Dave I think I see what you are saying now. Run one lead from the coil to the input side of the switch, then also connect the tail light wire to the input side of the switch. Then run the brake light wire to the other side of the switch.

Pretty cool way to do it, like you said it may change the difference in brightness between tail and brake but I’m willing to try it out and see if I like it

Yes. That is what I meant. My choice for that option as opposed to the Rupp way of wiring it is that I never intended to be sitting at a stop light at night on a mini bike. Having a brake lamp for an unlicensed machine is not much more than a novelty. So why dedicate a circuit or a side of the alternator to it?

 

[massacre]

Well my goal is to register the bike to ride to work (3mi each way)
I may succeed I may not lol
Gotta have tail brake blinker horn etc otherwise they are going to laugh me outta there.
They may still laugh me outta there but at least I will be prepared

 

[gumpit]

Well my goal is to register the bike to ride to work (3mi each way)
I may succeed I may not lol
Gotta have tail brake blinker horn etc otherwise they are going to laugh me outta there.
They may still laugh me outta there but at least I will be prepared

You will need DOT tires. The Murray track 2 uses dot tires. Or if you find a set of scooter wheels.

 

[massacre]

You will need DOT tires. The Murray track 2 uses dot tires. Or if you find a set of scooter wheels.

Thank you
My tires are not in great shape anyways so I know I have to get something DOT approved for the inspection.
I mean they are ok but def have cracks and stuff

 

[massacre]

Not to hijack my own thread, but I did find these, they are tubeless but I have run tubes in tubeless tires before.
The tread is def not off road friendly though lol

https://www.amazon.com/MMG-Scooter-...=2025&creative=165953&creativeASIN=B00BWX41RC

 

[massacre]

I have to look up reading AC voltage with my volt meter. That will basically answer all of my questions regarding voltage drop on the different wiring configurations.
To be honest I don’t think I have ever even set my meter to AC ever lol
Just DCv and ohms and maybe amps.

 

[electrathon]

Well my goal is to register the bike to ride to work (3mi each way)
I may succeed I may not lol
Gotta have tail brake blinker horn etc otherwise they are going to laugh me outta there.
They may still laugh me outta there but at least I will be prepared

A battery makes for great voltage stabilization. Adding a rectifier/regulator and a small alarm battery will make your lights function properly, they will not get bright and dim as you speed up and slow down. As you have it set up now you are likely doubling the intensity of the lights between idle and RPM.

 

[massacre]

Well I have bought the wrong switch twice now. But I wired up the bike anyways. Heat shrink, etc and 1/4” split loom.
Got a new chassis side harness connector as well. First switch I bought was DPDT and on/off/on, but when I got it out of the package, it was a momentary switch. Doh! Second one also DPDT but on/on, no off position. At least it is not momentary lol
Just made a jumper to the other side of the switch and everything works as it should.

I wired up the tail light through the brake switch which didn’t seem to make much difference in brightness. Headlight has it’s own lead.
Went to fire up the bike to test the lights, bike would not start. Had to be something simple because it had just been running. Had spark, plug was dry. Not getting fuel. Then recoil handle came off in my hand. Fixed that, rope pulled out of recoil. Fixed that. Ended up being the slide in the carb, I had removed it to route the wiring and it was not back in perfectly. Finally got it going and went for a rip. Of course it is hot as hades out and the sun is blazing so prob have to wait til later to see how bright it really is.
I thought the 6v headlight bulb would make a bigger difference in brightness but doesn’t seem to be much brighter than the 12v bulb but I’ll see later on tonight.

 

[ole4]

If you want bright lights go with led's I can show you a simple circuit so you can use leds. They use very little current. What does your headlamp bulb look like?

 

[massacre]

If you want bright lights go with led's I can show you a simple circuit so you can use leds. They use very little current. What does your headlamp bulb look like?

I have a Rupp bulb and it has a weird flange on it with offset holes and pins. Doesn’t look like an easy swap. I may look into LEDs at some point if I can’t get good results with this setup.

 

[electrathon]

Well my goal is to register the bike to ride to work (3mi each way)
I may succeed I may not lol
Gotta have tail brake blinker horn etc otherwise they are going to laugh me outta there.
They may still laugh me outta there but at least I will be prepared

Years ago I helped a friend convert his dirt bike to be street legal. There was no charging circuit in the bike so what we did was add a battery in the cargo pouch. It ran all the lights, he just had to charge it every few days to keep the battery active. It got him through the inspection.