Seal confusion

[Stangrcr1]

Just started semi-restoring a Gilson Tiller with a 5hp Briggs. Bought it cheap and it worked. Needed chains, bearings, seals in both trannys, but that is already done. Blasted and painted most of it and here is how it sits.

Since then I have been trying to find the engine shaft seals I need since they leak like a sieve. Motor runs great, starts first pull and no bad smoke. A little black on startup, and then clean once the choke is off.

130292 0803-01 82022307

As such I just want to replace the old seals and put her back to work. My confusion comes because this engine has two shafts out of the side cover. One from the crank, and one from the cam for reverse. I did some looking on Partstree and got lost. I did find two numbers:

691582 for the crank
691952 for the cam

Are these right? And then what do I need behind the flywheel?

 

[chazdaddy]

I looked at partstree for your engine and I think it takes gasket set 495603. I have this set (aftermarket Stens) and it only had 2 oil seals.

I have a side cover with the hole for the cam shaft. I will pull it out later and see if one of the seals fits. You might do the same, see if flywheel and/ or crankshaft appear to take same seal as camshaft.

Sorry, I don't have your answer. :shrug:

 

[Stangrcr1]

Thanks Chaz. I have not opened up the motor yet. Wanted to round up all the parts first.

Think I will clean off and open the motor this weekend and see exactly what I need.

And while I am at it, clean up the ports...:laugh:

 

[Stangrcr1]

Thinking about it, the cam is the forward drive...

I am thinking of doing a few mods to the Briggs. Nothing big, but I don't want it to bog down when cutting deep, so what helps most at the bottom end for torque with these motors? The governor will stay. No need for the tines to turn at 5k.

Considering the above, is it even worth putting a less restrictive exhaust and open element air filter, rejet? Motor will run at governed speed for hours on end when tilling. I don't want it too loud as I do have neighbors.

 

[Boostinjdm]

Clean the seals up good and they should have a number on them. If they say CR or National any auto parts should be able to get them if they don't stock them. You can also measure the bore in the case and the seal surface on the shaft. Then go to the auto parts store. Any store that can't look up a seal by size isn't worth shopping at.

 

[Boostinjdm]

If you want torque, bore it and stroke it.

 

[Stangrcr1]

Update:

Got the gasket kit in and only one of the three included seals is useable. The one for behind the flywheel. The other two are too large outside diameter. Measured the bore in the cover and the shaft size, looked on Ebay and it is the 294606S seal I need. Ordered 2.

Motor has been stripped, ported, de-eyebrowed, cleaned, and bead blasted. OldMiniBikes was nice enough to send me an ARC rod for it. Not really needed, but I like ARC rods. Will still have the stock steel flywheel, as a lighter flywheel would be bad for this motors use in a tiller.

One question which comes because of the gasket kit. It came with 3 side cover gaskets of different thickness. What is the allowable crank end play spec?

On edit: Found it. .002 - .008"

Actually I just put on a .005 gasket and it has .001 or less endplay but the cam has .030" endplay. So to get them even, I need to put in the .010 gasket and a .035" washer at one end of the cam.

Does anyone else worry about the cam endplay, or is it just me since I am using the cam drive...?

 

[Mustangman1992]

Update:

Got the gasket kit in and only one of the three included seals is useable. The one for behind the flywheel. The other two are too large outside diameter. Measured the bore in the cover and the shaft size, looked on Ebay and it is the 294606S seal I need. Ordered 2.

Motor has been stripped, ported, de-eyebrowed, cleaned, and bead blasted. OldMiniBikes was nice enough to send me an ARC rod for it. Not really needed, but I like ARC rods. Will still have the stock steel flywheel, as a lighter flywheel would be bad for this motors use in a tiller.

One question which comes because of the gasket kit. It came with 3 side cover gaskets of different thickness. What is the allowable crank end play spec?

On edit: Found it. .002 - .008"

Actually I just put on a .005 gasket and it has .001 or less endplay but the cam has .030" endplay. So to get them even, I need to put in the .010 gasket and a .035" washer at one end of the cam.

Does anyone else worry about the cam endplay, or is it just me since I am using the cam drive...?

I know this thread’s old as dirt but i’m going through the same thing, can’t find a pto shaft seal!! The seal is all mangled on my tiller and i can’t get the number, curious as to if you found one and where/what part number if you still know lol

 

[Lockasiam]

If you take your engine model and type and go to propartsdirect.net and go to "parts diagrams." Use your model number and find diagrams for your engine. This is how I found the seals for my engine