What do you understand concerning income tax?

This guy is a Irwin Schiff copycat. Erwin is now serving a 13 year sentence for tax evasion. Here is what he preached.

Among the arguments raised over the years by Schiff are:
1.that no statutory deficiency in Federal income tax can exist until an assessment has been made;
2.that no tax assessment can be made unless a tax return has been voluntarily filed;
3.that the Internal Revenue Service, in enforcing the income tax, seeks to impose a tax not authorized by the taxing clauses of the United States Constitution;
4.that the United States Tax Court has no jurisdiction over Schiff; and
5.that the United States Tax Court is not a court.

These arguments were ruled invalid in Schiff v. Commissioner.[6] Another argument made by Schiff on his web site is: "On the [Form] 1040 itself [...] you report 'zero' income regardless of how much you received in: wages, commissions, interest, alimony, capital gains or from operating a business. For tax purposes, 'income' only means corporate 'profit.' Therefore, no individual receives anything that is reportable as 'income.'"[7] This argument has been rejected by the lower courts, as well as the United States courts of appeal. See Cameron v. Internal Revenue Serv.;[8] Stoewer v. Commissioner;[9]Reinhart v. United States;[10]Fink v. Commissioner;[11]Flathers v. Commissioner;[12]Schroeder v. Commissioner;[13]Sherwood v. Commissioner;[14] and Ho v. Commissioner.[15]

Kids don't try this at home. I have seen many of these schemes over the years like creating your own church and becoming tax exempt. In every case if it catches on they go after the highest profile target and really give it to them. Look at Wesley Snipes. Don't fall for any of this "don't have to pay taxes" bull****.\
You MUST PAY taxes for VALUE COMING IN because it is gain, it is PROFIT.
Im trying to tell you, the average worker DOES NOT RECEIVE INCOME, THEY DO NOT HAVE VALUE COMING IN. They are not receiving financial gain. The worker or laborer is laboring to CREATE VALUE for the "labor backed" currency they receive.
If everyone was receiving value (income)then WHO IS WORKING TO CREATE IT??

When you receive financial gain, you pay tax on that gain, understood?
When you work or labor, the currency placed in your account IS NOT financial gain because the currency received its value FROM YOUR LABOR!

When you pay "taxed income" you are paying a portion of the profits you brought in. This type of gain is generated from the product NOT FROM THE LABORER WHO MAKES THE PRODUCT.

When someone who is doing the laboring is made to pay "income tax". then they are working just to pay tax for someone else's income NOT THEIR INCOME!. That means their own self, not the product, is generating the profit. The worker is using his own time/energy and labor to pay profit, that is SLAVERY.
Why is this so difficult to grasp?

Compare someone working at mc donalds paying "income tax" compared to a multi million dollar business paying income tax WHAT ARE THE SIMILARITIES?? Do you see any?

The "income" for the multi million dollar business received profits from the products. But the products were made by REAL LIVING BEINGS. Not only are profits being collected from the products, but they are also making the worker use their own energy and labor to pay profit as well!
CAN YOU NOT RECOGNIZE THE DIFFERENCE??
This is not rocket science, you do not need a book, you need common sense.

Ive already mentioned, stop comparing my answers to the garbage you find on websites.

Im not here to sell you something or to convince you to stop paying income tax, Im here to let you know what income tax REALLY IS. Then do what you want with the understanding you have.
Im trying to tell yuo, if people knew the REAL reasons for some of the stuff we were led to believe, they may have a change of heart and decide to start questioning this stuff.
A legal system thrives off of intentional or unintentiional ignorance.
Things exist in a leagl system because we give permission for it to exist. it is a LEGAL system were are under NOT a LAWFUL system.
 
Again....

A laborer creates the products. A business sells the products.

Income tax is to be paid for the sale of the products. The products brought income for the company. They receive profit form the products they sold.

BUT.....The worker or laborer who is using his energy and labor to make the products IS ALSO USING HIS ENERGY AND LABOR JUST TO PAY FOR SOMEONE'S PROFIT.

They are being made to take a portion of their time/energy and labor that they worked to make the products, just to pay profit to the irs for the agency called Federal Reserve and is NOT PART OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. They are a private organization USING OUR ENERGY AND LABOR TO CREATE PROFIT!!

Not only do they generate revenue/profit/income from Corporations and businesses but they also generate it from OUR TIME ENERGY AND LABOR!!

HUGE DIFFERENCE between income/profit coming from sales of products compared to coming from a living beings own energy and labor. This defines slavery. Is slavery legal now?
BUT BECAUSE THEY HAVE YOU BELIEVE YOUR INCOME TAX IS TAX ON YOUR INCOME---> IS A LIE!! Your income tax is payment for THEIR INCOME NOT YOUR INCOME. The tax you pay IS THE INCOME...IS THE PROFIT...IS THE REVENUE FOR THE IRS AND RESERVE AGENCY!!

DO YOU SEE, DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PROFIT COMING FROM PRODUCTS COMPARED TO PROFIT BEING COLLECTED FROM SOMEONE LABOR??

Sorry for raising my letters, just trying to get my point across.

Once you start to understand this, yuo will know there is NO SITE YOU CAN JOIN, NO SITE YOU CAN TRUST, YOU MUST LEARN AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND FOR YOURSELF THEN SHARE WHAT YOU UNDERSTAND WITH OTHERS. This would not continue if the majority of the public understood what was really going on. but because the majority remains ignorant, they get away with whatever they make up. That is how a legal system functions. Legal is only color or "artifical" law,and is not real law.

Do yuo enjoy having part of your pay from working/laboring to be taken out just for someones profit?? Are you a product? Are you a non living entity like the ALL CAPITAL name implies on the tax documents?? Thats how trhey are able to charge you and take a portion of your pay for THEIR INCOME/PROFIT!

Stop with the sarcasm and trying to make me look bad and use the energy towards understanding what I am trying to tell you!!!

Judges and courts make up the legal system. It would be foolish to think they will go against what they stand for. These problems need to be resolved amongst the majority of people, through communication, and then start asking THE RIGHT QUESTIONS. Its unlikley a legal system will give you the right answers if you ask the wrong questions.

Dont care enough about yourself or others to look into it? Then do it for your youngsters, because it will be much MUCH worse for them.
 
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Again,we understand the Strawman fallicy.It is nothing more than a word play.

You can word play all you want,but you can not show any real proof and you will not show your resource. All you have done is shown a collage word game.

In a yes or no answer "have you stopped beating you mom?" How can you answer that without incriminating yourself?

How about this one " have you ever touched a little boy private?" You can't,Unless you are a girl.
 
Don is fighting with DON right now,that is why he can't reveal his information source.
Ive listed the legitimate sources you study and learn from to come to your own conclusion.

Its unlikely you will find a book spelling out everything as it truly exists...dont think its its going to happen.

You must use common sense when understanding.
ex:
"taxed income" not the same as"income tax".
Buisness rakes in millions from selling a product pays income tax.
The laborer who makes the products for the business to sell, also pays income tax HUGE CLUE something is not right. The busienss who sells the products is not the same as the laborer who makes the products but both are charged "income tax" as if they are the same.

These are examples when you have to rely on common sense not website or book.
 
Again,we understand the Strawman fallicy.It is nothing more than a word play.

You can word play all you want,but you can not show any real proof and you will not show your resource. All you have done is shown a collage word game.

In a yes or no answer "have you stopped beating you mom?" How can you answer that without incriminating yourself?

How about this one " have you ever touched a little boy private?" You can't,Unless you are a girl.

Word play is what legal documentrs are all about!! The use of semantics keeps our understanding stuck in the legal realm.

Use common sense:
Straw man sounds silly.
Ive read about this and tried to understand how we could be a straw man on paper. Now step out of the silly sounding word realm and once again, enter common sense realm:
Do you spell your name in all CAPITAL letters? No? Then why are "they" spelling your name in all CAPITAL letters?
Are you, a living being, greater than a legal document? of course. Then why is your name printed on a legal document, remaining a legal document, not a lawful document? You override what is legal.
Its safe to say, since the legal document remained a legal document with yuor name printed on it, then instead of them turning their document into a lawful document, they turn your identity into a legal identity. Another example of relying on common sense because you are unlikely to find common sense spelled out word for word in a book.

Going a little further....
Is UNITED STATES when spelled in all CAPITAL letters refer to a Corporation, not a country? Study USC codes to learn this to be true. Now common sense
again--> if they have taken United States and spelled it UNITED STATES so it refers to a Corporation not a country, then what are the odds of them 'capitalizing' your name also linked into the Corporation?

and a little further.... Looking at how you spell your letters in your name, do they look small? Now look a the letters used to spell your name on legal documents, do they look large or in all Capital letters? Then they have just taken your name and "Capitalized" it.
Look in Burtons Legal Thesaurus:
Capitalize--> Utilize for profit/manipulate/take advantage of.

Can you understand what I mean by relying on common sense? Common sense cannot be disputed.
 
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I will trade any cover I have for some of that worthless paper anyday, just between you and me (wink wink) I know its worthless but the trick is you see these other fools dont know its worthless and they actually give me things like cars houses heathcare and real tangible assests for this worthless stuff, but keep it quiet I dont want to let anyone in on my scheme....
 
I will trade any cover I have for some of that worthless paper anyday, just between you and me (wink wink) I know its worthless but the trick is you see these other fools dont know its worthless and they actually give me things like cars houses heathcare and real tangible assests for this worthless stuff, but keep it quiet I dont want to let anyone in on my scheme....
Jeff, its not worthless when you receieve it AFTER you work. Because you work to back it. You created the value for the currency to be brought into existence. The fiat currency is not like gold, it is not waiting to be borrowed. The value for it must be created through working before it can legitimately exist.

We use it to exchange our labor into the product.
Our labor and the product IS the value, the currency represents the value, making it possible to exchange our value for soemone else's value (product).

Just like a tv has a receipt to represent the value of the tv. Without the tv, the receipt is worthless paper. Likewise, without our labor, the currency is worthless paper.

If politicians print out currency and spend it BEFORE we work back it with our labor, then it is used as credit. It has "purchasing power", but someone still must work to cover the cost.
 
Jeff, its not worthless when you receieve it AFTER you work. Because you work to back it. You created the value for the currency to be brought into existence. The fiat currency is not like gold, it is not waiting to be borrowed. The value for it must be created through working before it can legitimately exist.

We use it to exchange our labor into the product.
Our labor and the product IS the value, the currency represents the value, making it possible to exchange our value for soemone else's value (product).

Just like a tv has a receipt to represent the value of the tv. Without the tv, the receipt is worthless paper. Likewise, without our labor, the currency is worthless paper.

If politicians print out currency and spend it BEFORE we work back it with our labor, then it is used as credit. It has "purchasing power", but someone still must work to cover the cost.
Gold has no value.
 
at least I'm not working too hard for mine!

if I can get service with an imaginary piece of paper then that paper is valuable!

So, you're enlightening us to do what?? you've made your point and everyone might kinda agree on principle so I kinda see end of thread???

You actually need to work on you social skills and figure out how to get folks to follow your advice and not just get angry. You also need to realize the appropriate avenue to present your argument. Probably not OldMiniBikes or the cooking forums or????? Get one of those infomercial spots on TV right next to the jiffy mop guy from Ireland and folks will flock to see your wisdom.

I would compare your approach to a telemarketer, folks stop listening just as soon as you try to force info down their throat.

Not knocking your intentions but really, lighten up!
 

MikeBear

Active Member
Machinebike, the whole point is you CAN'T OPT-OUT unless you are willing to move to the woods, and BARTER for everything you have (which simply still works off your labor, just more directly), or KILL yourself, which is the ultimate OPT-OUT!

We live in their world, so we have to live by their rules. IF, and I say IF you could get 100% of all the people to say: "I will no longer play the game", perhaps something could be done. That will NEVER happen though, you will never wake up that many people at one time. If by some 1:trillions odd chance it did happen, most people will decide they have to continue to play the game. It's the only game in town. Some people can opt-out move to 40 acres, etc, but NEVER all of them, the universe would collapse first.

What do you hope to accomplish with your educating of people to all this? Most people really already know this, but if you give us your exact and concise answer to THAT question, perhaps you will actually sway a few people. It still won't change anything, but it might give us a little more understanding of where you are coming from.
I want to know WHY you won't answer my questions! See page 10. You skip over it and answer other people who are just mocking you. I haven't done that YET, so please formulate an answer, and lay it out for me.

Here, I'll restate the most important one for you:

What do you hope to accomplish with your educating of people to all this?

If you can't answer that with an actionable plan to fix it, you might as well give up. It's far too late anyway, "they" already own the system, and have for over 100 years. You either play by their rules, or you don't play at all. Which as you can see is a very tiny, tiny subset of people, or dead people.
 
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