Which Predator?

G

gr7070

New Member
#1
#1
I'm trying to understand the difference between these three Predator 212cc engines. I see one lists a diameter, there are two different max RPMs of the three engines, and two even have the exact same name.

Predator 212cc Item#60363

Predator 212cc Item#69730

Predator 212cc Item#69727

Additionally the Stage 1 kits have 4 different options; combinations of the hemi/non-hemi and go-cart/not go-cart. How would I know which of the three Predator engines the four stage 1 kits apply to?

Some help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
 
CarPlayLB

CarPlayLB

Well-Known Member
#2
#2
60363 is the hemi
69727 is the California non hemi
69730 is the 49 state non hemi

The main difference in the stage kits is that the hemi cannot take the 18# valve springs due to coil bind. The hemi also uses the same cam as the Gx200/Clone engines, and non hemi engines have their own cams
 
G

gr7070

New Member
#3
#3
Thanks! Big help. I now understand those differences you stated.

What's the layman's difference between the Hemi/49 non-Hemi?

The California non-Hemi is the perfect layman's explanation for that one, thanks again!
 
CarPlayLB

CarPlayLB

Well-Known Member
#4
#4
The Hemi and non-hemi are made in different factories. The hemi shares camshaft with the Gx200/Clone engines and has the hemi head...and longer pushrods. The non-hemi has its own cams. The non-hemi also has 5mm valve stems, that cannot be traded for the 5.5mm Gx200/Clone valves.
All of these engines share the same type carbs and exhaust patterns
The hemi comes stock with 27/25mm valves with 5.5mm stems, whereas the non-hemis have 25/24mm valves with 5mm valves (unless you have an older first gen that may have 5.5mm stems. Probably confused you more at this point! LOL
 
capguncowboy

capguncowboy

Well-Known Member
#5
#5
I too had wondered this, but never bothered to ask. Glad we've got some guys that will ask those questions, and even more glad that we've got knowledgeable people around to answer them
 
G

gr7070

New Member
#6
#6
CarPlayLB said:
Probably confused you more at this point! LOL
Click to expand...
I will say it is more info than I'm capable of utilizing, that's for sure, but not exactly confusing.

I very much appreciate you explaining the difference!

I'll need to check my motor to see which I have so I'll know how to proceed with any Predator hacks.

Much thanks!
 
joebiodiesel

joebiodiesel

Member
#9
#9
Great thread! I've got a couple of questions myself.
As I understand it, if you want to do a high HP build, you buy the non-hemi, ans there are more performance parts available for it.
Is the hemi the same dimensions as the non-hemi?
I'm just looking to run one stock, with maybe a 400 RPM over-rev. Not interested in removing the governor.
I have a 1972 Rupp Roadster 2, and I just want to put an engine on it that has a few more HP than stock, and won't have clearance issues on the frame.
Joe
 
OND

OND

#10
#10
Joe , I would go with the Hemi engine It comes with the flat top piston, 27mm int valve and 25mm exh valve right out of the box . You can also run any Honda/ clone after market cam in this engine. But there is pros and cons to both engines.
 
CarPlayLB

CarPlayLB

Well-Known Member
#12
#12
Pros and cons to each
The hemi comes with the larger valves, but the lift is limited to 0.300" due to the shallow springs pockets. If you wanna go big, you need to have some machinist abilities! The cam selection is a ton better than the non-hemi, as the clone/Gx200 stuff. If you have a hemi...look at this cam here...perfect for a minibike
https://www.OldMiniBikes.com/super-x-dyno-cam.html

good lift, not crazy duration, and takes lighter spring
 
H

Havasu Dave

Moderator
#13
#13
CarPlayLB said:
good lift, not crazy duration, and takes lighter spring
Click to expand...
Good advice, and good job OldMiniBikes Warehouse, posting the specifications on your site:

Target (MAX) RPM: 7500
Spring Pressure (In / Ex): 20 lbs
Valve Lash (IN/EX): .003"
Ignition Timing: 30 Deg BTDC

INTAKE
LIFT: .265
Dur @ .050": 236.9 Deg.
C/L: 108 ATDC

EXHAUST
LIFT: .265
Dur @ .050": 236.5 Deg.
C/L: 108 BTDC
 
danford1

danford1

#14
#14
If you are keeping the engine stock and only turning 4000 rpm, either one will be fine. You can also use a Clone engine which is a 196cc version. Any of them will be more powerful than your HS40.
There Are lighted versions also that will be good for your Roadster2's lights.

An issue you "might" have is the angled engine plate. You might have to fab a carb adapter to level the carb. This may not be a concern though. I had a Hemi on my Sears Green Streak with the angled engine plate. It ran just fine with the stock carb on an angle. I assume you will be using the Rupp gas tank as opposed to the tank on the engine. Tilting and engine with a stock tank will run raise the fuel fitting and you will run out of gas sooner. Using the Rupp tank eliminates that concern.

I had a few Rupps. You Will notice a huge performance gain especially with a torque converter. Be careful the first time you ride it, you may need a wheelie bar :)
A Clone, Hemi, Non-Hemi, whatever you get will be fine, especially keeping it stock.

I have a stock Clone Greyhound engine on a Wards 525 with a torque converter. I adjusted the gov to run about 4500 rpm.
I don't see any need for more power on that bike. It will wheelie as is if the you gas it to much. It is a GREAT running engine.
Stock air box, stock muffler etc. It isn't loud and doesn't piss off neighbors like loud mufflers or No muffler will. It has plenty of power and speed too.

Enjoy !

Danford1
 
Last edited:
ole4

ole4

#15
#15
I have a fox with slanted engine plate and a stock carb on a predator hemi and it runs just fine, no carb issues. Also just wanted to note here the tool to cut the hemi seats to fit 37mm valves had to be modified or it would cut too wide an area. Once I did that I just chuck it in a hand drill and widen the seat, tool comes from isky. Then you need longer valves and corresponding push rod mods to get the geometry correct. The hemi has a much better port as the short side is shallower than a regular clone head and valves are totally unshrouded. I want to weld one up to make a bathtub style chamber like the Harleys have on the next head I do.
 
joebiodiesel

joebiodiesel

Member
#16
#16
OND said:
Joe , I would go with the Hemi engine It comes with the flat top piston, 27mm int valve and 25mm exh valve right out of the box . You can also run any Honda/ clone after market cam in this engine. But there is pros and cons to both engines.
Click to expand...
danford1 said:
If you are keeping the engine stock and only turning 4000 rpm, either one will be fine. You can also use a Clone engine which is a 196cc version. Any of them will be more powerful than your HS40.
There Are lighted versions also that will be good for your Roadster2's lights.

An issue you "might" have is the angled engine plate. You might have to fab a carb adapter to level the carb. This may not be a concern though. I had a Hemi on my Sears Green Streak with the angled engine plate. It ran just fine with the stock carb on an angle. I assume you will be using the Rupp gas tank as opposed to the tank on the engine. Tilting and engine with a stock tank will run raise the fuel fitting and you will run out of gas sooner. Using the Rupp tank eliminates that concern.

I had a few Rupps. You Will notice a huge performance gain especially with a torque converter. Be careful the first time you ride it, you may need a wheelie bar :)
A Clone, Hemi, Non-Hemi, whatever you get will be fine, especially keeping it stock.

I have a stock Clone Greyhound engine on a Wards 525 with a torque converter. I adjusted the gov to run about 4500 rpm.
I don't see any need for more power on that bike. It will wheelie as is if the you gas it to much. It is a GREAT running engine.
Stock air box, stock muffler etc. It isn't loud and doesn't piss off neighbors like loud mufflers or No muffler will. It has plenty of power and speed too.

Enjoy !

Danford1
Click to expand...
Thanks for the replies!! Exactly what I was looking for.
Joe
 
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