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  1. #21
    Senior Member chrisr's Avatar
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    Thank you for your feedback on the new clutch. It does have the cool appeal and like you said, for drag racing and karting it has some advantages. Please keep us posted.

    Thanks again

  2. #22
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    Gilson/Wards build

    Another quit test ride yesterday and I'm starting to think the clutch isn't for me. It's difficult to go slow with it. It's either hauling ass, or nothing. That's fun, don't get me wrong, but I actually use my mini bike as transportation around the pits each year at the helicopter event I attend. So many people and expensive obstacles around, I can't really go that fast. Plus, carrying my BBQ pulled pork loaded nachos back to our tent without dropping them would be difficult. ;-)

    I'm gonna practice with it some more today, and I might even try gearing the bike differently before I take the clutch off. It stands to reason that a lower gear ratio would make it easier to launch without stalling, and I could go a little slower. That might make enough of a difference to do the trick. Of course it'll mean a lower top speed, which already doesn't seem very fast. It's weird, top speed isn't that fast, but you can't really go slow either. When you want to make a gentle start, you'll stall it. You have to give plenty of throttle and lean forward and carefully slip the clutch. It launches like a rocket. Try to slow to a walking pace and it's starts chugging and wanting to stall. Almost like you're on a motorcycle trying to maneuver around a parking lot in 3rd gear. (I'm no stranger to running manual transmissions with clutch levers or pedals. Been on manual quads, dirt bikes, motorcycles, and manual transmission cars for a couple decades).

    It's definitely gonna be better for drag racing and karting than general putting around on a mini bike. If I don't get it working the way I want on this bike, I'll probably keep it for a future kart build :-)


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    Last edited by corrosionate; 07-15-2017 at 12:31 PM.

  3. #23
    buckeye's Avatar
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    I've missed this.
    Nice build you have going on.
    If that clutch doesn't work out you can,always gear the jackshaft yo your liking.
    Keep plugging.

  4. #24
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    Ok, so I'm pretty sure I'm gonna try a centrifugal clutch, since it's an easy swap, but probably end up with a torque converter in the end. Im generally impressed with this manual clutch, but it's not a good fit for the intended purpose for this bike.

    I'm also finding the steering to be a bit sketchy. Like it's unstable, and the wheel wants to turn really hard to one side or another, had some close calls where I was afraid it was gonna flop over on me and I was gonna go over the handlebars. whereas my doodle bug, I can let go of the bars and it'll coast straight down the road. Wonder if that's a geometry thing... anyone else with a gilson notice that?

    The vibration is pretty bad too, enough to make my vision blurry no matter my speed, even on the smooth road. Could be wheel/tire related, or maybe the off-center rear sprocket, I don't know. I'll check into that too. I don't have that issue on my other bike, with the same engine.

    Gonna need some more work till I'm happy with it, but I'll keep going with it till it gets there. I like the rear suspension and the look of the bike.


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  6. #25
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    Unless that clutch comes to you as free, I would not bother. Earlier in the thread you mentioned cost comparison of that 3D and a TAV. I couldn't really understand what you were pricing as a torque converter can be had for less than $100 (on the low end). Assuming you will spend another $50-70 for a proper CC, that would put your total spend up & over the cost of a name-branded torque converter.

    I'm approaching this from a "Gilson" angle. The mini is heavy, you're not a kid. There is a profound difference between the two drives on a bike like this. I've done the comparison on an even heavier modified Gilson and a torque converter will deliver (at least) the same pull-away performance in addition to providing extra top-end speed.

    Don't get me wrong, there are certainly a number of happy single-speed Gilson owners but you have an opportunity to build-in anything you wish. This is why I made a decision to own both original and custom versions of this marque. I go back the custom when I feel too "confined" with the OE minis...
    Last edited by control4userguy; 07-16-2017 at 02:33 PM.

  7. #26
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    Gilson/Wards build

    Good points. I appreciate the honest input.

    I'm kinda thinking along those lines too, and I agree I'll probably only be happy with the torque converter. However Im pretty sure I have a new clutch for #42 chain in the garage that I was going to use on a smaller engine bike for my 13 year old but ended up not using, cus that plan went in a totally different direction. Just gotta dig it out.

    I'm not holding on to high hopes that the centrifugal clutch is gonna satisfy my needs, but it's a 10 minute swap, so I can at least say I tried it. Not exactly free, but almost.

    Oh, and I see OMB sells a different make of torque converter, a clone of the TAV, for a good price. I might try that one. My doodle bug has a TAV2, and I paid $200 for it. I guess I'd have to say that it's been worth it though.

    Oh well, you don't know if there's a better option unless you try new things. The manual clutch was a satisfying experiment, but I'll be looking for another use for it... something with 4 wheels probably :-). I've never ran a mini bike with a centrifugal, so there's some curiosity there too.


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    Last edited by corrosionate; 07-16-2017 at 10:24 PM.

  8. #27

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    The torque converter is WELL worth the $70.
    Here is the OMB kit

    Danford1

    https://www.ombwarehouse.com/mini-bi...ue-converters/

  9. #28
    Senior Member chrisr's Avatar
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    Here is another. Comes with the 35 and 41 sprocket + free shipping.

    GO KART TORQUE CONVERTER KIT CLUTCH 3/4" COMET TAV2 30-75 218353A 12T #35 10T 41 | eBay

  10. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisr View Post
    Here is another. Comes with the 35 and 41 sprocket + free shipping.

    GO KART TORQUE CONVERTER KIT CLUTCH 3/4" COMET TAV2 30-75 218353A 12T #35 10T 41 | eBay
    Wow. $10 cheaper and Free shipping. Great deal !
    Does OMB Warehouse price match?

    Danford1

    Edit: Notice/Warning. The bolts that come with those kits are metric thread. The engine mounting holes are SAE. You'll need to buy (4) 1" long 5/16-24 bolts and another longer bolt to hold the clutch on the crankshaft. The cranks are either 5/16-24 or 3/8-24. You will have to determine what size thread is in your crank before you buy that bolt.
    Last edited by danford1; 07-17-2017 at 12:24 PM.

  11. #30
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    Gilson/Wards build

    Ok, so the more I ride this bike with the manual clutch, the more fun I'm having. It's wicked, and takes a lot more practice than any other clutch I've ever operated, but I'm getting the hang of it a little better, and it's fun. I still say it's definitely not for beginners, and not appropriate for the majority of mini bike riding styles, but for someone who's looking for a bit of a thrill or looking for some kind of high performance launching capabilities or are just dead set on trying a manual clutch, you can practice and be somewhat reliable and consistent with this one. Its very touchy and take a lot more finesse than your typical motorcycle, dirt bike, quad, or even sports car. The closest thing I can compare it to was when I once worked on a honda prelude that was built for drag racing with a bunch of crazy engine work done to it, it had some wicked aftermarket clutch in it, and it grabbed like this sucker does, kinda like an on/off switch. The guy didn't warn me and after stalling it on the first try, I accidentally roasted the tires on the way to the install bay. Lol. He thought it was hilarious. While some extra skill and practice is needed to operate it, there's lots of fun to be had there once you get the hang of it.

    So for a cruising around, relaxing easy ride type bike, this isn't the clutch for you. But I am getting some enjoyment out of it. Partially from the adrenaline rush of the strong launches, and partially just from the challenge of trying to master it.

    Gonna back burner this build for a bit, cus I think I need to go with some 10" or 12" wheels for some extra ground clearance. I find that I'm constantly scraping the foot pegs as I'm turning. It's getting annoying. I've got some things coming up that are gonna cut into my mini bike tinkering time, but I'll mess with it here and there when I can, and hopefully come back and knock it all out within the next couple months.

    Any advice on some bigger wheels that'll work with this guy? Can I set up a spoked wheel the same way, by just putting the appropriate spacers and bearings to match the axle diameter and bobs your uncle? If I can't find some gilson/wards wheels, I may have to finagle something else on there. Never worked with the bigger wheels.

    Anyone ever mess with these?https://www.ombwarehouse.com/10-blac...t-package.html

    Done jabbering for the night. Gotta get to bed. I'll update when I can


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    Last edited by corrosionate; 07-25-2017 at 02:13 AM.

 

 
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