H50 Light coil issue Please help

[PAPSTISY]

I bought a H50 Light coil and flywheel from and OldMiniBikes member to convert my non-lighted coil H50 into a H50 w/light coil.

Prior to install the H50 ran perfect and I heard after you remove a magneto it's very heard to get back into correct position. But I still thought what the heck I will give it a try.

Well! I installed and guess what it doesn't start. Just my luck. Anyway, not sure why.

I have the following.... compression, great spark and carb is adjusted correctly and getting gas. So what do I have wrong? Please help.

My old coil had a black ground wire running from Magneto to block. I didn't install on new set-up because I planned to ground through light switch, like the Rupps.
If I don't have magneto grounded to block and don't have a ground currently installed on wire harness should the motor still fire?

Or is that possible my problem? Any ideas would be great. I already search and got scared off by other peoples stories of problems with same thing. Any help would be great.

 

[125ccCrazy]

if you have spark the coil is fine, sounds like maybe you have the timing off... it may be retarded.... if the black wire fastened to the tin on the front of the block via a male/female connector that is the kill wire....

 

[Havasu Dave]

Paps, if it's a points engine: Your piston needs to be .080" before top dead center when your points close. The difference between it running and not running, is a screwdriver handle-tap of difference. Tedious as heck. Requires depth gauge and ohm meter. You cant do it by eye, and when you swap the magneto base, all of the previous settings are null and void, even if you've marked the slots.

You will still get spark, but you wont get it at the right time. It should run with the lighting pig tail hanging and not hooked up to anything.

Disregard if this is a solid state ignition.

 

[PAPSTISY]

That's the wire I'm talking about. It's not hooked up. If that kill wire is not grounded will that cause it not to fire? I don't think it's a time issue. Because I have had time issues on motors before and there was always some type of kick back at some point or the flywheel fly's off. None have happened.

 

[PAPSTISY]

Great! Dave, So I'm screwed since I can't even put the original back and get it right.

So what if you don't have the mad skills like you? Is there any tricks to try a few times and get it by pure luck? Really, I thought getting my screws lined up to screw head marks I would get it right.

And yes I did mark my old base prior to ripping off. I thought this change out is easier then your solutions. Now what?

 

[Havasu Dave]

No mad skills here. I had the same issues, and had to learn how to do it. It isn't that difficult to do, but it is tedious and time consuming. You may consider sending it out to ATKRIDER or a few others here.

Or, down load the book, get the depth gauge and ohm meter and go for it.

 

[125ccCrazy]

If you lined up the old marks with the bolts it should at the very least fire, more than likely even run, maybe not spot on but it should run.. I would make sure the points are gapped correctly... if you didn't change the condenser swap that out, they can break down and yes they will go from working to not and back to working.... I know this first hand from a Morris Minor my Dad had...... Do not ground the long wire off the points, that will kill the engine, that only gets hooked to a switch so you can shut the engine down, if it's permanently grounded it will never run.. also check the flywheel key and make sure it didn't shear off when you tried to start the engine..

 

[Havasu Dave]

If you lined up the old marks with the bolts it should at the very least fire, more than likely even run, maybe not spot on but it should run...

I just did the exact same thing with an HS40. Came to me in perfect time. Swapped ignition over to lighted mag frame. It was impossible to time the engine to .035 because there wasn't enough rotation in the slots. I ended up timing it to nearly .040 and 16 on the points, and it is out far enough to where it barely runs, and sometimes runs backwards. When I pull it back apart, I will check key and add slot space to mag frame.

He us using a completely different magneto frame assembly. Marks wont mean anything. In fact they never do, since a bump of a screwdriver handle on the mag rack is enough to knock it out of time. Much less distance than a permanent marker line makes. (You're right, it should try to run) He's got fuel and spark.

 

[Havasu Dave]

Clarification; 125ccCrazy has forgot more on these engines than I'll ever know. I was simply stating what I've been going through. It's .005 out of time, and will run, but wont accelerate, and on occasion has backfired and ran backwards. This is on a freshly machined long block, and a brand new carb.

If it's not a known good condenser, I'd suspect it- sometimes spark looks good, but isn't enough.

 

[capguncowboy]

If it's not a known good condenser, I'd suspect it- sometimes spark looks good, but isn't enough.

This is good advice. The first engine that I worked on was a doozy. I had tried everything. Even after sending it to another member and confirming it worked properly, it would still shut off after a few minutes and wouldn't start no matter what I did to it. I changed out the coil and condenser and it worked fine after that.

Now, as a general rule of thumb, I change the points, coil and condenser on every engine I work on, whether it needs it or not. It costs about $20-25 each time, but it's well worth it to know I don't have to take the engine apart again later. My time is worth more to me than that.

 

[PAPSTISY]

I relied on an Old, Old man that use to work on H motors. He said to me. Back in the day the didn't have fancy reverse pressure or depth gauges like today. "Which I'm sure they really did and he just didn't" Anyway, He said whenever he would set time on the Tec motor all he had to do is line piston head flush up to dirty line in the cylinder sleeve located towards top of head. Then close your cap completely. He said that becomes your start point. SOOOOO. That's what I did... It worked perfect. Motor runs with no time issues.

I think Dave has it right. Unless, you have the tools it becomes pure luck. I almost ruined a perfectly good motor. I would not try what I did again.

 

[trinik7597]

glad to hear it worked for you :thumbsup: them old timer's know their stuff :laugh: