Honda ES6500 Generator wont stay running ...

Sixpac440

Sixpac440

#1
#1
The crank case was full of gas and oil. The gas had migrated from the tank to the crank.
Changed the oil & filter.
Removed the carb, pulled the float bowl, gently cleaned the jets with WD 40, air and a small wire. The bowl was clean when 1st disassembled.
1-1/2 gallons of fresh gas was put in the tank.
I turned on the petcock and let the gas run in a container for a minute.
Bought a new battery.
Fuse in the end of the control panel is good.
Plugs are slightly sooty but good enough to run.

It starts and runs for a couple seconds like a very small amount of gas and been metered for that quick burst then it shuts off.
Wait a second and it repeats. Just short 2 second bursts.
Loosened the gas cap, same result.
Choke makes no difference.
Tried the electrical panels breaker on and off and auto-throttle on and off, no difference.

Also I plugged a light into the 120v plug and does not come on at all while the engine runs in the short burst.
Does the engine need to be running on its own continuously before the electrical panel works?

Thanks
Kevin
 
MB165

MB165

Active Member
#2
#2
does it have a solenoid on the bottom of the carb bowl? Those sometimes will stick in the closed position.
Also check the low oil system, might be tripping. I have manuals on CD for these......
it may also need the field flashed if there is no/low AC output
 
Last edited:
Sixpac440

Sixpac440

#3
#3
Hi MB!

Yes it has the solenoid on the bottom of the carb.
I removed it and it had a little crap on the needle so it was gently cleaned with WD 40 and a rag.
I tried moving the needle by hand and it would not move. I did not try to force it with a tool.

How do I test the solenoid?

Assuming the gods are with me and it runs what does "the field flashed" mean?

Kevin
 
Sixpac440

Sixpac440

#6
#6
I tried it with and without the air cleaner assembly ..... same result ...

I am getting cleaned up for the night but I will check in the morning to see if the needle retracts when the key is turned on.
 
H

Hent

New Member
#7
#7
gumpit said:
Check the air filter.
Click to expand...
I didn't think you knew what that or checking the oil meant...... you know, Gumpit style maintenance on clones.... ( i still didnt check, or add oil to the yellow clone yet, just old fuel and ripping it around, so I'm guilty too!)
 
MB165

MB165

Active Member
#12
#12
Sixpac440 said:
Hi MB!

Yes it has the solenoid on the bottom of the carb.
I removed it and it had a little crap on the needle so it was gently cleaned with WD 40 and a rag.
I tried moving the needle by hand and it would not move. I did not try to force it with a tool.

How do I test the solenoid?

Assuming the gods are with me and it runs what does "the field flashed" mean?

Kevin
Click to expand...
Yeah its stuck, gummed up fuel down the shaft into the assy. use 2+2 or gumout, start spraying it and use pliers and try to push it down in, most will free up. Another way is to just take the rubber tip off, put it back in and try it.

field flash is when we bring up the magnetism in the rotor manually, to start power output......sometimes if they sit too long they will loose resdiual magnetism in the rotor and then no power........ Get it running right, it may come up on its own.
 
Sixpac440

Sixpac440

#14
#14
OK ... the solenoid and needle are an anti-backfire assembly.
I tested them and they are working correctly. Read below for the details.

Next is soaking the carb in a tank at work for 8 hours.
After that I will buy a rebuild kit.


The pin extends to shut off the flow of gas as it is being shut down to prevent a backfire.
PB Blaster freed it up and I bench tested it. The pin extends when energized with 12v. I reversed polarity and the pin still extends.
With no power to it the pin can be pushed down or pulled up but always returns to its neutral position.
After reassembling and testing it is the same result weather the solenoid is plugged in or not.
Also I tested the solenoid by turning the key on and it does nothing and shows no voltage. It only shows voltage as the short burst of the motor running is dying down. When the motor stops there is no voltage again.

and the beat goes on .......
 
Sixpac440

Sixpac440

#16
#16
incogrhino said:
Gotta be a fuel delivery issue.. you'll get er.
Click to expand...
I was thinking it was an electronic issue .... but I'm just not sure. I'm usually pretty good at sorting this stuff out.
Possibly it being a Honda twin, water cooled generator it has safety devices I am not aware of. It is made to sit and run by itself unattended so it could be a low oil switch, over heat switch, tip switch or god knows what else!
Got Tom (beekeeper) coming over Sat to help me sort this thing out.
Your welcome to come over and give it a swift kick too!
Hell, get all the local boys, bring your minis and we will make a couple hour fest of it!
 
MB165

MB165

Active Member
#18
#18
one easy way to sort out whether its fuel or electrics is to get it fired up and use gumout to run the engine.....if it runs off the gumout then you know the electrics are good, if it dies then put a spark tester on and watch what it does as its dying.

it has a low oil shut down, if you pull the yellow wire connection loose where it exits the engine block that should isolate it...you can also pull the black wire going to the ignition coil, isolating that kill wire will ensure no outside safety features interfere with running
 
Sixpac440

Sixpac440

#19
#19
Hi MB165, thanks for continuing to follow this issue. How can I get a copy of the discs you have?

Tom and I played with it for a 1/2 hour last Saturday. We pulled the black wire off the coil/magneto and nothing changed.
The plugs (new plugs) were pulled and the motor was cranked over for 20 seconds or so. The plugs were reinstalled and the thing fired up and stayed running for the 1st time! I quick grabbed a drop light, plugged it in, flipped the lights switch and the light came on! YEAH!! But almost as soon as the light lit the motor started to stumble and died. Then it was back to the same old same old.
Here is a pic of the front ...


We went to the back side, pulled the generator cover and tried unplugging the generator thinking it may have bogged the motor down when it lit the light .... no difference.
Here is a pic of the back side ...


I think it is fuel delivery.
There was mention of a rubber tip on the anti-backfire solenoid, I don't see one, just a metal tip.
From the beginning I was considering switching it to Propane or Natural gas ... is the carburetor still used in that configuration or is it replaced by something in a kit?
Ebay sells a kit Tri Fuel Propane Natural Gas Conversion Honda Generator ES6500 EU6500 ES EU 6500 | eBay .... how will the carb come into play with this kit?

Is there a certain starting procedure?
Breaker off?
Auto throttle on?
Ect ...

Thanks
Kevin
 
Sixpac440

Sixpac440

#20
#20
WE GOT IT!!!! Hahahahaha!! Bout time ...

Tom came over today (Saturday 3-28-15) and we had at it.
Checked the valve lash and for sticky anything. It looked good.
Compression in both cylinders was great.
Spark was strong.

Got it running (very weak) and it was spitting gas out of the intake side of the carb onto my hand.
Tom cocked his head and said he wondered if the exhaust wasn't plugged.
We pulled the muffler ... wait for it .... VOOOMMM!!!! Ran like a champ!
There is a mesh screen spark arrestor under the pipe coming out of the muffler ... it was plugged.
We banged it around a bit put the muffler back on and it ran fine.
Here are a couple pics.

This is the cover that was over it. I will need to do some drilling and tapping to get it re-attached.


This is the plugged up spark arrestor.


We reassembled it and turned on the cameras video function to capture the moment of beekeeper (Tom) turning the key ....
[video=youtube;hSgILMw0azw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSgILMw0azw&feature=youtu.be[/video]

We ran it for 10 or so minutes, everything checked out.

Now I just need a workshop, welder, air compressor ..... :) :thumbsup:
 
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