TEC H50-65286H Flywheel

[copyman]

Hey Markus. Good info. Kinda confirmed what I was thinking, these weren't the correct FW & Stator. It was obvious once I saw the stator plate was different. Not sure if you missed it in a prior post but I got the bike running good. I took apart this time to look at electrical issues I was having and because whoever the moron was had the spark plug wire coming out the carb side! Had to be the same moron that painted the engine with 1/2 inch thick white crap (see pics in another thread). I spent hours stripping that crap off and repainting.

Flywheel as suspected is metal, tested with magnet.

My gut feeling is this Hilltopper was from 1972 and as you said FW & Stator were replaced late 70"s. Then sat again until recently when I got it. It started right up first pull day I got bike but ran rough. Put new OEM carb, plug, head gasket, Brake cables, etc etc and got it to run really good.
Was finally down to the electric and then this surprise. Very disappointing as I was trying to keep bike original.

Does anyone know if this was original Hilltopper engine H50-65286H ? From all the research I did pretty sure this is original engine? Like you said "assume nothing" the cover with serial # could of been changed too?

And last thing can you be more clear on how and why this could be dangerous? Only think I can think of you meant is flywheel coming off?

Thanks again

 

[markus]

Yes that is the engine number that Hilltoppers came with. the danger part is securing the flywheel properly. Simply put, your crankshaft Flywheel side is supposed to look like this (the bottom one is a crankshaft from an H50):

Yours went through a gender change, and not by choice. So you want to hope that The changes that have been made and the part that were used to do it are strong and straight enough to secure a proper, even torque etc..

 

[copyman]

Yes that is the engine number that Hilltoppers came with. the danger part is securing the flywheel properly. Simply put, your crankshaft Flywheel side is supposed to look like this (the bottom one is a crankshaft from an H50):

Yours went through a gender change, and not by choice. So you want to hope that The changes that have been made and the part that were used to do it are strong and straight enough to secure a proper, even torque etc..

Ouch! That is why when I was looking at those screw on flywheel removal tools on ebay etc I was thinking to myself where does that screw onto? Now I see why and what broke off.

Well good to know it is original engine. Going to put it back together and say a prayer.

Thanks

 

[mustangfrank]

Ouch! That is why when I was looking at those screw on flywheel removal tools on ebay etc I was thinking to myself where does that screw onto? Now I see why and what broke off.

Well good to know it is original engine. Going to put it back together and say a prayer.

Thanks

The only thing you can assume is the engine tag/shroud is original, with all that side of the engine has going on, who knows.

I wouldn't run it like that but if you're going to...degrease all the threads and use some form of Loctite...pull the recoil off periodically and check for proper torque.

I have an H50 block swap in my pile of things to do, I'm going to have basically a whole engine worth of parts I don't need but some fins are broken on the block...I'll verify what condition the crank is in when I crack it open, you can have it all for what I paid, $25 + shipping...non-ball bearing crank, so you'll need to verify what yours is.

 

[copyman]

The only thing you can assume is the engine tag/shroud is original, with all that side of the engine has going on, who knows.

I wouldn't run it like that but if you're going to...degrease all the threads and use some form of Loctite...pull the recoil off periodically and check for proper torque.

I have an H50 block swap in my pile of things to do, I'm going to have basically a whole engine worth of parts I don't need but some fins are broken on the block...I'll verify what condition the crank is in when I crack it open, you can have it all for what I paid, $25 + shipping...non-ball bearing crank, so you'll need to verify what yours is.

Great advice as usual. I see you are in FL. Since I'm new here don't know much about the members. Do you have a small engine repair business or related? Would you consider me paying you to work on the engine if I sent it to you? Or if I go down to FL see my sister in the future could drop off? Only way I would do it is if I could find the proper electrical setup and then lights would work and bike would be 99% original which is my biggest concern.

Either way think I'm interested in that crank with snout intact. How do I verify mine. Hope don't have to open the engine. Ha-ha that's beyond my craziness and wouldn't attempt it.

Putting it back together with loctite on bolt holding flywheel. It was really tight and had to use air gun to remove. It torques really tight. I believe rotation of engine turns in direction of tightening bolt? I wouldn't be taking long rides on this bike anyway.

Will report back soon.

Thanks again.

 

[mustangfrank]

Great advice as usual. I see you are in FL. Since I'm new here don't know much about the members. Do you have a small engine repair business or related? Would you consider me paying you to work on the engine if I sent it to you? Or if I go down to FL see my sister in the future could drop off? Only way I would do it is if I could find the proper electrical setup and then lights would work and bike would be 99% original which is my biggest concern.

Either way think I'm interested in that crank with snout intact. How do I verify mine. Hope don't have to open the engine. Ha-ha that's beyond my craziness and wouldn't attempt it.

Putting it back together with loctite on bolt holding flywheel. It was really tight and had to use air gun to remove. It torques really tight. I believe rotation of engine turns in direction of tightening bolt? I wouldn't be taking long rides on this bike anyway.

Will report back soon.

Thanks again.

I think you are mixing me up with @markus

He's the guy you would want to build/rebuild your Tecumseh if he does it for hire, he'll see the message with the shoutout above.

I offered the parts but he may be able to hook you up as well. Check your PTO side cover, if there are two nuts recessed next to the crank it's ball bearing, no visible hardware it's non ball bearing...might help to ID whether block is original to mini or not also.

 

[copyman]

I think you are mixing me up with @markus

He's the guy you would want to build/rebuild your Tecumseh if he does it for hire, he'll see the message with the shoutout above.

I offered the parts but he may be able to hook you up as well. Check your PTO side cover, if there are two nuts recessed next to the crank it's ball bearing, no visible hardware it's non ball bearing...might help to ID whether block is original to mini or not also.

I was actually thinking you were the expert with all your great advice! But if you recommend Markus that is good enough for me. He also has shared some great knowledge with me and others on this forum. I'm sure you are knowledgeable to work on any of these engines as well.

Going to post back soon maybe with a video of bike running. Started to rain so didn't have much time today but got it back together and rode it for 5-10 mins. Started no problem idles great to me really smooth, doesn't shut off. As soon as you give it gas it bogs down, a little backfire, hesitation, then out of no where it will take off like a bat out of hell! It drove great for about 100 yds, didn't know how fast it was, then when I let off throttle to turn around I gave it gas and was back to running rough again? Tomorrow I will do carb & gov adj by the book and if not will take a video and post on here.

Thanks again

 

[mustangfrank]

I was actually thinking you were the expert with all your great advice! But if you recommend Markus that is good enough for me. He also has shared some great knowledge with me and others on this forum. I'm sure you are knowledgeable to work on any of these engines as well.

Going to post back soon maybe with a video of bike running. Started to rain so didn't have much time today but got it back together and rode it for 5-10 mins. Started no problem idles great to me really smooth, doesn't shut off. As soon as you give it gas it bogs down, a little backfire, hesitation, then out of no where it will take off like a bat out of hell! It drove great for about 100 yds, didn't know how fast it was, then when I let off throttle to turn around I gave it gas and was back to running rough again? Tomorrow I will do carb & gov adj by the book and if not will take a video and post on here.

Thanks again

Flattery will get you all the advice you need...

I know just enough to fix my stuff and offer limited knowledge on a forum, wouldn't do it for hire yet.

Glad it runs, you must have got the mag close to the original location. Hopefully you can tune it out with the carb adjustments, otherwise the timing could cause a bog like you are describing.

 

[copyman]

Flattery will get you all the advice you need...

I know just enough to fix my stuff and offer limited knowledge on a forum, wouldn't do it for hire yet.

Glad it runs, you must have got the mag close to the original location. Hopefully you can tune it out with the carb adjustments, otherwise the timing could cause a bog like you are describing.

Ha-ha.

Shoot I was afraid you were going to say that symptom could be the magneto timing. Only reason I was able to get stator back where it was is I marked it plus it was maxed out to one side. If timing was off would you be able to ride bike at full throttle nice and fast? Would it stay running and idle nice and smooth? Doesn't make sense.

This bike never ran right since I got it so don't know if that "wrong" stator ever worked right!

Take care

 

[mustangfrank]

Ha-ha.

Shoot I was afraid you were going to say that symptom could be the magneto timing. Only reason I was able to get stator back where it was is I marked it plus it was maxed out to one side. If timing was off would you be able to ride bike at full throttle nice and fast? Would it stay running and idle nice and smooth? Doesn't make sense.

This bike never ran right since I got it so don't know if that "wrong" stator ever worked right!

Take care

You'll know tomorrow, it doesn't take much movement on the carb screws to dial in an engine. The alternator is different but the mag portion is in the same position on either and it works. They'll run with the timing off from factory settings, IF anything I'd guess you're slightly advanced.

 

[copyman]

You'll know tomorrow, it doesn't take much movement on the carb screws to dial in an engine. The alternator is different but the mag portion is in the same position on either and it works. They'll run with the timing off from factory settings, IF anything I'd guess you're slightly advanced.

Ok cool. I will turn both carb screws 1.5 turns as I believe you suggested before and start there. So you are saying to turn carb adj screw very little at a time? Like a 16th or 1/8 of a turn at a time? When they call the screw on bottom of bowl speed adjustment how is that adjusted? With back wheel elevated off ground?

Thanks

 

[mustangfrank]

Ok cool. I will turn both carb screws 1.5 turns as I believe you suggested before and start there. So you are saying to turn carb adj screw very little at a time? Like a 16th or 1/8 of a turn at a time? When they call the screw on bottom of bowl speed adjustment how is that adjusted? With back wheel elevated off ground?

Thanks

Little turns good or on all but one of mine I can turn the lower by fingers so it's probably more like 1/4 - 1/2 turns with my fat fingers and ease 'em back in if I go too far.

If you have a stable way to run it with the wheel up great, otherwise I just take the belt off. It's usually so close with the base settings I ride it and tune as I stop and go. Try just setting your low speed (side screw) starting at 1 turn out from seated, you're already running well enough on your high/main screw so I wouldn't start over.

 

[copyman]

Little turns good or on all but one of mine I can turn the lower by fingers so it's probably more like 1/4 - 1/2 turns with my fat fingers and ease 'em back in if I go too far.

If you have a stable way to run it with the wheel up great, otherwise I just take the belt off. It's usually so close with the base settings I ride it and tune as I stop and go. Try just setting your low speed (side screw) starting at 1 turn out from seated, you're already running well enough on your high/main screw so I wouldn't start over.

Perfect! Hope to have good news tomorrow. One more thing I forgot to mention picked up a can of Tru-fuel at lowes and put that in. Figured that would take crap gas with alcohol out of the mix. Was this a mistake? Should I just stayed with fresh regular grade gas? No big deal will drain it and put regular gas it.

 

[mustangfrank]

Perfect! Hope to have good new tomorrow. One more thing I forgot to mention picked up a can of Tru-fuel at lowes and put that in. Figured that would take crap gas with alcohol out of the mix. Was this a mistake? Should I just stayed with fresh regular grade gas? No big deal will drain it and put regular gas it.

Tune it with what you're gonna run in it.

There's no right answer to the fuel type question, just economics, for the little riding time and the storage time I can never predict I might be switching to ethanol free boat gas if the closest pump to my house has it in 87 octane.

 

[copyman]

Tune it with what you're gonna run in it.

There's no right answer to the fuel type question, just economics, for the little riding time and the storage time I can never predict I might be switching to ethanol free boat gas if the closest pump to my house has it in 87 octane.

Well if using this better fuel will take guess work out of bad gas and as little as I will ride it makes sense. I guess if I switch back to alcohol gas will have to tweek carb again? Plus with not riding it much having stable gas is a good thing.

 

[copyman]

Got it running 80-90% but still a hesitation, little backfiring if I throttle all the way fast. When I did adjustment with belt off the throttle lever on carb doesn't open all the way to full but is running fast and smooth at that point. Is this the governor suppose to stop it? If I move carb lever by hand more the eng revs unbelievable faster but also rough . Scary fast! With bike turned off when I turn throttle lever on carb opens all the way and touches metal like adj in manual shows but stops half way with bike running. Both OEM gov & throttle links.

The bike rode good and fast 3 times around my 1.5 acre property but then when I let off and back on throttle it backfired a few secs than took off again and ran fast & smooth ! Can't imagine bike going much faster than what it did today with carb lever only halfway. Think the bike is rated at 30 mph but felt more like 40. haha I know it feels faster on a small mini bike but my wife even said it looked really fast and told me to put helmet on

On another note I got real lucky and found an original Hilltopper engine. Put a wanted ad on local craigslist and someone has one and sent pics. A little rough looking but the person said it's not frozen and had spark when he tried it last time. Has the right color wires on connector, Red, black & green and correct Hilltopper eng serial #. Just hoping the weather didn't get to the inside the way the outside looks, really weather beaten like was sitting outside for years. What's the chances I could get good flywheel & stator plate from an engine that was out in weather?

Thanks

 

[mustangfrank]

Got it running 80-90% but still a hesitation, little backfiring if I throttle all the way fast. When I did adjustment with belt off the throttle lever on carb doesn't open all the way to full but is running fast and smooth at that point. Is this the governor suppose to stop it? If I move carb lever by hand more the eng revs unbelievable faster but also rough . Scary fast! With bike turned off when I turn throttle lever on carb opens all the way and touches metal like adj in manual shows but stops half way with bike running. Both OEM gov & throttle links.

The bike rode good and fast 3 times around my 1.5 acre property but then when I let off and back on throttle it backfired a few secs than took off again and ran fast & smooth ! Can't imagine bike going much faster than what it did today with carb lever only halfway. Think the bike is rated at 30 mph but felt more like 40. haha I know it feels faster on a small mini bike but my wife even said it looked really fast and told me to put helmet on

On another note I got real lucky and found an original Hilltopper engine. Put a wanted ad on local craigslist and someone has one and sent pics. A little rough looking but the person said it's not frozen and had spark when he tried it last time. Has the right color wires on connector, Red, black & green and correct Hilltopper eng serial #. Just hoping the weather didn't get to the inside the way the outside looks, really weather beaten like was sitting outside for years. What's the chances I could get good flywheel & stator plate from an engine that was out in weather?

Thanks

My best advice...don't rely on the tag numbers when checking out the engine. If the seller knows what he has and it's priced accordingly, bring your tools and ask to verify the flywheel by pulling the shroud, the flywheel part number is right on the face.

Main things to check in your case and in general are crankshaft type (ball-bearing or non), crankshaft PTO size and condition (nut securing flywheel) and the flywheel part number.

Engine not being stuck is a good sign, as long as it wasn't sitting in a mud puddle the shroud protects the flywheel pretty well.

 

[copyman]

My best advice...don't rely on the tag numbers when checking out the engine. If the seller knows what he has and it's priced accordingly, bring your tools and ask to verify the flywheel by pulling the shroud, the flywheel part number is right on the face.

Main things to check in your case and in general are crankshaft type (ball-bearing or non), crankshaft PTO size and condition (nut securing flywheel) and the flywheel part number.

Engine not being stuck is a good sign, as long as it wasn't sitting in a mud puddle the shroud protects the flywheel pretty well.

Good to know. Thanks

Any ideas with the carb lever not opening all the way only when bike is running. With bike turned off twist throttle and lever moves all the way. Is this the governor doing it's job because it really high revs when I open all the way up by hand?

 

[mustangfrank]

Good to know. Thanks

Any ideas with the carb lever not opening all the way only when bike is running. With bike turned off twist throttle and lever moves all the way. Is this the governor doing it's job because it really high revs when I open all the way up by hand?

What you described sounds like normal operation of the governor. The governor is designed to avoid excessive loading of the engine from aggressive throttling and from over-revving.

 

[copyman]

OK good to know gov is working right! I did loosen a few of the gov screws just to get the links on and tightened screws. Is the gov adjustment critical? Should I do the gov adjustment that's in manual?
Another reason I ask about gov adj is the bike runs great with carb gov arrow lever in middle position. Is it ok to run with gov lever in middle position? If I put gov all the way to off position bike runs rough and / or stalls out!

Duh, does it matter what drain plug to use for oil change? And if I read specs right use straight 30 weight oil?

Thanks