Coleman 196cc cams?

Fisher1983

Active Member
#1
Been a while since I was here! I just got back into mini biking with a new Coleman B200RSV. I'm very happy with it so far. My question is about the 196cc engine....I thought I heard somewhere that the 212 Hemi uses the same cams as far as journal sizes. I don't like how the Colemans have a plastic cam gear...it just bothers me. Hoping to open it up one day and swap in an all metal cam. If the Hemi cam fits, I found take out units on ebay dirt cheap. Will they work? Can I use my Coleman tappets or do I need the Hemi ones? Also curious if anyone knows the lift and duration of the Coleman cams vs. the 212 Hemi cams. At this time I'm not interested in a performance cam or other mods....I fell down that hole with my old MM212 and it became scary. I like the bike as it is, just want long term durability.
 

panchothedog

Well-Known Member
#2
The hemi will fit your 196. The non hemi cam has a journal that is .005" larger. I have built a couple of 196's and several non hemi predators. As far as I can remember, they all have a lift of around .224". And a duration of 228. Should be an easy pull out, put in swap. No reason to change tappets providing they are not made of plastic.
 

Fisher1983

Active Member
#3
The hemi will fit your 196. The non hemi cam has a journal that is .005" larger. I have built a couple of 196's and several non hemi predators. As far as I can remember, they all have a lift of around .224". And a duration of 228. Should be an easy pull out, put in swap. No reason to change tappets providing they are not made of plastic.
Thank you...this is exactly what I was hoping to hear! You said you've built some 196's.....if I ever decide to warm mine up, are they as responsive as the Predators? I have zero experience with a 196. I see people swap them for 212's all the time and always wondered why.
 

panchothedog

Well-Known Member
#5
I have 4 karts and 1 mini bike. 2 196's, 2 212's and 1 224. All of them are built ( hopped up ) some a little more than others. The 196 engine is every bit as responsive to modifications as any. One of my 196's is most modified of any of them. It certainly doesn't have the lower rpm torque as a 224, but is built for high rpm. With a very high engagement rpm on the torque converter, it will stay up with anything else I have. The reason why I built this the strongest was sorta sentimental. It was the original engine from the 1st kart I bought for my oldest Grandson in 2008. Still kicking.
 

Fisher1983

Active Member
#6
I have 4 karts and 1 mini bike. 2 196's, 2 212's and 1 224. All of them are built ( hopped up ) some a little more than others. The 196 engine is every bit as responsive to modifications as any. One of my 196's is most modified of any of them. It certainly doesn't have the lower rpm torque as a 224, but is built for high rpm. With a very high engagement rpm on the torque converter, it will stay up with anything else I have. The reason why I built this the strongest was sorta sentimental. It was the original engine from the 1st kart I bought for my oldest Grandson in 2008. Still kicking.
One thing I've noticed.....this 196 must have been poorly balanced. It vibrates like a son of a gun. My vision blurs slightly when riding. Mind you, the engine cradle is bolted to the frame with rubber bushings. I've never rode a bike that vibrates this much. Been through every bolt and nut...it's all tight. I have a old style, non Hemi 212 crank, rod and flywheel in the shop.....will those parts fit in my 196 block using the 196 piston? I thought I heard somewhere that this works, and would make a 208 stroker. That engine ran smooth, but was left outside to fill with water. The piston and block are junk, leaving me with the rest of the good parts. Bike has 45 mins on it and I'm already considering a 212 swap.
 

SAS289

Well-Known Member
#7
The 212 crankshaft should fit in the clone block. You would first need to remove the head and measure how far the piston is in the hole at TDC. With the 55mm stroke crankshaft you'll be adding .040" to the stroke so you don't want too much piston out of the hole. I would say that .035" or more in the hole and you are good to go. You would want a .027" head gasket minimum.

Every 196 I have opened had .038" or more in the hole but it's best to measure yours.

And when using a non stock crankshaft you should make sure endplay is acceptable. That can be done with just the block, side cover and side cover gasket prior to assembly.

Nice thing is better than stock compression but I'm not sure if it will fix your vibration issue.

It would end up around 200 or 201 cc. Something like that. The 208's are big bore clones that use a 70mm block and a clone crankshaft.
 

Fisher1983

Active Member
#8
The 212 crankshaft should fit in the clone block. You would first need to remove the head and measure how far the piston is in the hole at TDC. With the 55mm stroke crankshaft you'll be adding .040" to the stroke so you don't want too much piston out of the hole. I would say that .035" or more in the hole and you are good to go. You would want a .027" head gasket minimum.

Every 196 I have opened had .038" or more in the hole but it's best to measure yours.

And when using a non stock crankshaft you should make sure endplay is acceptable. That can be done with just the block, side cover and side cover gasket prior to assembly.

Nice thing is better than stock compression but I'm not sure if it will fix your vibration issue.

It would end up around 200 or 201 cc. Something like that. The 208's are big bore clones that use a 70mm block and a clone crankshaft.
You're right....I got the displacements backwards. Thanks for the info! I might look for a GX200 also.....I've never seen one that ran poorly or vibrated like crazy. At that point I'd start experimenting with the 196 and my parts. Not sure yet. Love the bike though!
 
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