Finally registered after reading all the good info on these discussions...and a big thanks to all the mini bike gurus on here..I've been building bikes(or anything with a motor) for years.... wife and I loaded or box truck full of minis and went to windber for the first time this year ,had a great time and even came home with a couple ribbons...met a lot of people that have the same mini bike bug as I do...thanks again for all the great info...