L.A Drag Spot.

Well Charles, u said it, he did gain in both area's because of testing and tuning to get the right combo, not everybody can calculate it up the first time and get everything perfect like u do. So tell me, without dyno tuning ur motors, how do you figure out the "perfect" RPM range and where the max TQ is when u dont dyno? I do know this, we have built two identical motors, down to head flow characteristics, and exact mapping on the fuel injection, etc, and both motors make different HP and TQ in different RPM's, Tell me how u can calculate this one, because on paper, they should both be the same right. WRONG, because no two motors are the same and this goes back to "testing and tuning" and that is what my bro did because he isn't perfect at calculating what should be or could be, because things that appear the same aren't always the same.

Dont get me wrong, cuz I understand ur point, but there are always variables that make all the difference in the world, when it comes to drag racing, because it all boils down to whatever comes up on the board at the end of the track, and we all know that in drag racing, a vehicle that goes 9.90's all day long can break out due to traction or clutch adjustments, etc., so in my bro's case this time the stall made that difference, and that is what I think he is trying to say. Nothing more, nothing less, he gained because he found the stall was the incorrect variable in his combo. Now dont keep hatin on him cuz he was able to find a way to go faster and gain RPM without asking you what the problem was.

I also understand that you have been building for 15 yrs. plus, but as soon as u can explain my example of two identical motors making different power then u will be the guru that all the engine builders in the world will come to because as of now there is no way to calculate why one motor makes more power than the other.
Highlighted has been my point all along. He wants to factor in everything else other than the what I'm sayin, just because.
 
If they get their parts and "combo" from Charles:laugh:
Actually Bruce, the combo has been made up way before Charles came up with it, do u think that he told HONDA to make oversized pistons, and that he designed the "black mamba" cam, no that was ISKY, and he is definetly, not ARC either, so dont give all the credit to Charles, even though he is a good builder, and has many different combo's , but he isn't the only guy who can do that, just look real close at JD's builds, he does them all by himself, with little help from anybody and he definetly isn't Charles. I will say that it was because of Charles, that JD does this whole minibike thing, but JD has been building engines much longer than Charles and I am not talking about minibike engines either. JD has told me about building V8's for many years, but I wouldn't go as far to say that JD is the go to guy for V8 combos because of this.

As far as understanding, I can say that I gave Charles a example of two identical engine builds, lets see what he says about why they make different power, and how can back that up with his "calculations". Ask JD, there are many different things that come into play in this motorsport field that we all love and fight over, so there is no ONE person who knows it all, because there are just to many variables to "understand" why things are what they are.
 
Actually Bruce, the combo has been made up way before Charles came up with it, do u think that he told HONDA to make oversized pistons, and that he designed the "black mamba" cam, no that was ISKY, and he is definetly, not ARC either, so dont give all the credit to Charles, even though he is a good builder, and has many different combo's , but he isn't the only guy who can do that, just look real close at JD's builds, he does them all by himself, with little help from anybody and he definetly isn't Charles. I will say that it was because of Charles, that JD does this whole minibike thing, but JD has been building engines much longer than Charles and I am not talking about minibike engines either. JD has told me about building V8's for many years, but I wouldn't go as far to say that JD is the go to guy for V8 combos because of this.

As far as understanding, I can say that I gave Charles a example of two identical engine builds, lets see what he says about why they make different power, and how can back that up with his "calculations". Ask JD, there are many different things that come into play in this motorsport field that we all love and fight over, so there is no ONE person who knows it all, because there are just to many variables to "understand" why things are what they are.
Let me touch on the cam comment bro. Actually Charles did have allot to do with cam profiles in Tims early days and today as well. I believe Charles actually got his first cam specs from the Yamaha YF200 cam. Which I believe has the same duration as the 242, 270, 276, and 290 grinds ISKY makes. Now on that list is the 310, 330, 350, 370 & 380's. I'm pretty sure the Yamaha YF200 cam is the exact or maybe just a slight number change as the 242 grind that ISKY has been making for a few years now. Kick ass gasser cam BTW ......
 

minidragbike

Supporting Speed Nut!
Once again I totally understand what your saying Charles. I highlighted where your wrong however. I was max'd out at 9380 at the 660 foot mark with that single adjustment. Prior to that I was turning 8880 8900 on a regular in the same 660 distance. My engine combo was identical turning both RPM's. I up'd the stall from 4900 to 5500 that's it. Again all your examples make all the sense in the world to me, they just don't fit into what happened with my set up. No harm no foul ...... :thumbsup:
But that is the exact example, you up'ed your stall by 600 RPM and now you was able to finally max out at 9340. Before you changed your stall was to low. If you would have ran 750 feet it would have TOPed out at the same 9340.

I can't believe why you still don't get it.

I guess you can't teach a old dog new tricks. I'm done with schooling people
 
But that is the exact example, you up'ed your stall by 600 RPM and now you was able to finally max out at 9340. Before you changed your stall was to low. If you would have ran 750 feet it would have TOPed out at the same 9340.

I can't believe why you still don't get it.

I guess you can't teach a old dog new tricks. I'm done with schooling people
damn you guys still talking about it....

you said you were done explaining like 5 pages back...

lets start a new topic to argue about already.
 

minidragbike

Supporting Speed Nut!
Well Charles, u said it, he did gain in both area's because of testing and tuning to get the right combo, not everybody can calculate it up the first time and get everything perfect like u do. So tell me, without dyno tuning ur motors, how do you figure out the "perfect" RPM range and where the max TQ is when u dont dyno? I do know this, we have built two identical motors, down to head flow characteristics, and exact mapping on the fuel injection, etc, and both motors make different HP and TQ in different RPM's, Tell me how u can calculate this one, because on paper, they should both be the same right. WRONG, because no two motors are the same and this goes back to "testing and tuning" and that is what my bro did because he isn't perfect at calculating what should be or could be, because things that appear the same aren't always the same.

Dont get me wrong, cuz I understand ur point, but there are always variables that make all the difference in the world, when it comes to drag racing, because it all boils down to whatever comes up on the board at the end of the track, and we all know that in drag racing, a vehicle that goes 9.90's all day long can break out due to traction or clutch adjustments, etc., so in my bro's case this time the stall made that difference, and that is what I think he is trying to say. Nothing more, nothing less, he gained because he found the stall was the incorrect variable in his combo. Now dont keep hatin on him cuz he was able to find a way to go faster and gain RPM without asking you what the problem was.

I also understand that you have been building for 15 yrs. plus, but as soon as u can explain my example of two identical motors making different power then u will be the guru that all the engine builders in the world will come to because as of now there is no way to calculate why one motor makes more power than the other.
So I guess school is back in session.

Ok, get ready to copy and save to your favorites. I will explain you all of you new guys learning motors how I know where Max TQ is without a Dyno.

On my bikes I normally have a tach. And my max TQ is at 5500, but I don't know this yet. So I purposly put on a clutch with low stall, like 4000 stall. I then jump on the bike and run it down the street.

This is the trick, so hold on to your pants.

The motor will then reach a RPM where it change sounds and acceleration speeds up. That is MAX TQ. You then set your clutch stall to engage 500 RPM before max TQ. So MAX TQ is at 6000 RPM. The bike starts moving and locking up the clutch slowly until MAX TQ where it locks solid and you get moving fast through the power band.

You see, no dyno is needed

Now, a bonus
The power band is MAX TQ - through to MAX HP. That normally is only 2000-2500 RPM. Sk a example is from 6000-8500 after that is over revving. Over revving sounds bad, but it's a.good thing in drag racing, because it's speed.
 
So I guess school is back in session.

Ok, get ready to copy and save to your favorites. I will explain you all of you new guys learning motors how I know where Max TQ is without a Dyno.

On my bikes I normally have a tach. And my max TQ is at 5500, but I don't know this yet. So I purposly put on a clutch with low stall, like 4000 stall. I then jump on the bike and run it down the street.

This is the trick, so hold on to your pants.

The motor will then reach a RPM where it change sounds and acceleration speeds up. That is MAX TQ. You then set your clutch stall to engage 500 RPM before max TQ. So MAX TQ is at 6000 RPM. The bike starts moving and locking up the clutch slowly until MAX TQ where it locks solid and you get moving fast through the power band.

You see, no dyno is needed

Now, a bonus
The power band is MAX TQ - through to MAX HP. That normally is only 2000-2500 RPM. Sk a example is from 6000-8500 after that is over revving. Over revving sounds bad, but it's a.good thing in drag racing, because it's speed.
damn i've tried ridimg and looking at the tach, that shit is hard, lol...
 
But that is the exact example, you up'ed your stall by 600 RPM and now you was able to finally max out at 9340. Before you changed your stall was to low. If you would have ran 750 feet it would have TOPed out at the same 9340.
Right but you initially gave a list of reason on why I gained the RPM. I simply said it was from upping my stall. You went on to give half a dozen reasons on why the only reason I could have gained RPM other than raising the stall. You want me to place your reason on my application so I can understand your thinking, but why should I when they don't apply to how I gained RPM. 750 feet, maybe but I did it in 660 with a few turns on the Bully 2 disk.


I can't believe why you still don't get it.
I get it. Just not the way you wanted me to, it's all good.

I guess you can't teach a old dog new tricks. I'm done with schooling people
I'm one to listen, learn and apply.
 
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