Lil Indian 400 survivor

Addicted 2 Minis

Addicted 2 Minis

Well-Known Member
#1
#1
Well, I did it again!, I'm not sure of the exact year yet but I believe it to be a 1971. It's mostly original with original Tecumseh H25 and Michrina tag on the air filter cover. With the first number of the last set of the serial number being "1", it's more than likely the bike is a "71". It appears to have the original seat, clutch cover and caliper along with a groovy purple paint job. I just bought it from eBay so I haven't run through all the little things but I will post pictures of all the details once I am able to. In the meantime here are the pictures from the listing.

001.jpg 002.jpg 003.jpg 004.jpg 005.jpg 006.jpg 007.jpg 008.jpg
 
Addicted 2 Minis

Addicted 2 Minis

Well-Known Member
#7
#7
markus said:
The engine is actually a 1970, your looking at the wrong set of numbers. Thats a great find, guessing a kit bike due to the fancy paintwork on the frame.
Click to expand...
Hmmm, the way I always understood was, the second group of five digits is the "year/month-day/engine number" produced. Tecumseh only made 26 engines of any specific model group per day which is denoted by a letter that follows four numbers. The first number is the last number of the year of manufacture, the next three are the numbers of days into the year it was produced and the letter is for which of the 26 that were produced that day. The last five of the serial number on this engine appears to be "1213G" which would make it manufactured the 213th day (Aug 1st.) 1971 and the "G" being the seventh number of the alphabet makes it the 7th. engine made that day.
 
Addicted 2 Minis

Addicted 2 Minis

Well-Known Member
#8
#8
Now you got me wondering Markus, I zoomed in further on that axle strap and what looked like a "1" may have been just where the paint was faded on a "0" which blows my engine numbering out the window!. I asked if the seller could look to see if there was a date under the seat after I purchased it so when he gets back with me, we'll know for sure.
 
markus

markus

Well-Known Member
#9
#9
Addicted 2 Minis said:
Hmmm, the way I always understood was, the second group of five digits is the "year/month-day/engine number" produced. Tecumseh only made 26 engines of any specific model group per day which is denoted by a letter that follows four numbers. The first number is the last number of the year of manufacture, the next three are the numbers of days into the year it was produced and the letter is for which of the 26 that were produced that day. The last five of the serial number on this engine appears to be "1213G" which would make it manufactured the 213th day (Aug 1st.) 1971 and the "G" being the seventh number of the alphabet makes it the 7th. engine made that day.
Click to expand...
again, your looking at the wrong set of numbers....look farther up the tag in the center and you will see the year/day of that year number. they didn't use any type of alphabetical system until very late 1970, at which time they dropped that second set of numbers from the tags. the second series of numbers you are looking at (any ones I have on hand currently have no letters in them BTW) I would have to believe that would be a way to narrow down the Run/shift/or even an actual serial number for that specific engine rather than a run number. as an example here is a better legible 1970 engine tag

1970 hs40 #'s from Rupp roadster



I would love to see the literature that explains alphabet letters and 26 engine per run, can you link me to that? I have a real hard time believing that one for a few reasons.
 
Addicted 2 Minis

Addicted 2 Minis

Well-Known Member
#10
#10
markus said:
again, your looking at the wrong set of numbers....look farther up the tag in the center and you will see the year/day of that year number. they didn't use any type of alphabetical system until very late 1970, at which time they dropped that second set of numbers from the tags. the second series of numbers you are looking at (any ones I have on hand currently have no letters in them BTW) I would have to believe that would be a way to narrow down the Run/shift/or even an actual serial number for that specific engine rather than a run number. as an example here is a better legible 1970 engine tag

1970 hs40 #'s from Rupp roadster



I would love to see the literature that explains alphabet letters and 26 engine per run, can you link me to that? I have a real hard time believing that one for a few reasons.
Click to expand...
http://gardentractortalk.com/forums/topic/43247-how-old-is-my-tecumseh-engine
 
Addicted 2 Minis

Addicted 2 Minis

Well-Known Member
#11
#11
Markus, I do see what you mean and it appears you are correct, this is the first Tecumseh I have had where the first digit of the first part of the serial number is different than the first digit of the last part. Like in the picture you sent of the HS40 Serial# 0244 03376, mine appears to be 01** 1213G? or 12316?. I just figured like on your engine the 0 portion of 03376 meant the decade (1970) the 337 would be the day and the 6 was the run or plant number it was produced at?.
 
Addicted 2 Minis

Addicted 2 Minis

Well-Known Member
#12
#12
I did notice in that forum post they did mention that if the serial# consisted of 8-9 numbers than their method didn't apply but they also stated that ones with 8-9 numbers were post 2004 models. They also mentioned that their method didn't apply to Lauson Engines. From the information I got from the Tecumseh site stated 1964-65 is when they switched serial# styles from the Lauson method. As far as the lettering ( A-Z ) being the number of engine ( 1-26 ), seems kinda far fetched, I've seen a lot of engines ending with "B", too many to be the second of that run anyhow. Seems more like a plant code to me. Anyhow, since seeing ones with different first group first numbers than first second group numbers of this style, my method gets tossed!. I guess it was just by coincidence that the first number of the first group and the first number of the second group were the same on the ones I have seen. I found a picture of a "69" that the difference is also obvious, which means that the number on my axle strap will surely coincide with the engine serial# to be that of 1970, Thanks Markus, I just got a little smarter!, Until I forget it all tomorrow, Hahahaha.

1582136644493.jpeg
 
markus

markus

Well-Known Member
#13
#13
Yea on the 1962-1970 tags, just take that set of numbers that are usually off on their own and totally disregard them. The date code will be after the word serial and will be one consecutive set of digits only. Doesn't meant the bike is earlier, could have been forgotten engine stock that didn't go our right away or something to that effect. The serial on the Michrina decal would most likely dictate a time frame that they got that bike or kit out and ready.

Note the way the first type of typical 60's tags were stamped in 1962, see they stamped that set of numbers that don't tell anything differently, which was like how the earlier screenprinted tags were stamped, and of course how they started to stamp them again in middle/later 1971

IMG_11941


That info on the alphabet numbers just doesn't really add up.....literally. Plus they didn't like to use some letters since they are easily mistaken for digits (I O for example) In the 1983 manual they state that the letter represents the line and shift on which the engine was built.
IMG_1741.JPG


Now of course if they were using the Official Tecumseh Engines "Rush Job" calendar, all bets are off :p( they sent these and other funny-ish signs to dealers back in the day for their shops, I just got an old dealer packet in with a bunch of them) IMG_1740.JPG
 
Addicted 2 Minis

Addicted 2 Minis

Well-Known Member
#14
#14
Just got word back from the seller, the date on the axle strap is 6/70, just like my green bike. I'm certain it's a kit bike due to the groovy purple paint job!, now to see if it has a serial number on the engine plate like my green bike. If it doesn't have a serial number on the engine plate, perhaps we'll know how to tell the difference between kit bikes and complete bikes. To the best of my knowledge my green bike is all original but lacking the engine. The purple bike is all original minus the throttle grip, throttle/brake cable and foot peg covers. I've already found matching grips for the purple bike and seeing how it was a kit bike, I'm not worried about keeping the groovy purple paint job!.
 
markus

markus

Well-Known Member
#15
#15
Addicted 2 Minis said:
Just got word back from the seller, the date on the axle strap is 6/70, just like my green bike. I'm certain it's a kit bike due to the groovy purple paint job!, now to see if it has a serial number on the engine plate like my green bike. If it doesn't have a serial number on the engine plate, perhaps we'll know how to tell the difference between kit bikes and complete bikes. To the best of my knowledge my green bike is all original but lacking the engine. The purple bike is all original minus the throttle grip, throttle/brake cable and foot peg covers. I've already found matching grips for the purple bike and seeing how it was a kit bike, I'm not worried about keeping the groovy purple paint job!.
Click to expand...
1970 is More fitting for the 400 decal anyway since they dropped those designations in 1971 from the catalogs.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top