Which of these 4 guns for a moderate cost CC?

[turftech 1]

Hi all,
been looking at a new gun, for home defense and CC. Currently have 4 favorites. All 4 are used.

1. CZ 82 in 9mm x 18 Makarov (Czek surplus)
$279, with 2 mags, both 12 rnd, and case

Pros:
All steel construction.
Simple and durable
I like the 9 x 18 round (it is between a .380 and a 9mm parabellum)
12 round magazines
very accurate, feels good in hand
rated very high for reliability

Cons:
No decocker
A little heavy
A little wide in the grip, as the mag is a double stack.

2. Bersa Thunder in .380
$280 with case and 2 7rnd mags

Pros:
Decocker
good feel
slim profile
light weight

Cons:
.380 is not as powerful a round as the 9 x 18,
Ammo costs more than the 9 x 18
Bersas have been known to have occasional feeding probs and misfires
not as accurate as the CZ 82
low mag capacity

3. FEG PA 63 Hungarian surplus in 9 x 18 mak
$280-300, comes with 4 7rnd mags and IWB holster

Pros:
Alloy frame for light weight
ideal size for CC
9 x 18 Mak
said to have good reliability

Cons:
blowback is said to be bad
I am told it's a difficult gun to shoot, and the double action trigger pull is supposed to be hard.



4. P64 (Polish military surplus) in .380
$239 comes w/ 1 6rnd mag

Pros:
All steel
very small for CC
very reliable
small mag

Cons:
small mag
.380
don't like the sights as much as the other 3.



So, those are the 4 I am looking at. If weight weren't an issue, I would grab the CZ 82 in a heart beat.

I have shot .380, even a Bersa .380, but I have never shot a 9 x 18 Mak. The ballistics/energy seem to be just a tad better than the .380, and as I mentioned, the ammo is cheaper. You can't even find 9 x 19 right now, .380 is around, but is expensive. I can get boxes of 50 rnd 95grn FMJ rounds in 9 x 18 at my local gun store for $14/box, or get the good JHP stuff for just under $20/box.

Any feedback from anyone who has or has shot/owned any of these guns is much appreciated!

 

[5horsebriggs]

Well i see your point,being you hear something and grabbing a wide heavy gun wouldbe pretty annoying. Loud if its cc or home defence and its prob close quarters so i wound think you ould get more shots out of agun with less recoil and a good feel, like using 2 380 shots... insted of 1 9x18... lol i really dont know personally my top two are the cz82 and the p64 from what it sends

 

[steven Durham]

I have a new pistol too it's a Henry Mare's leg only a .22 caliber but its fun.
Steve

 

[Tom S.]

I have a new pistol too it's a Henry Mare's leg only a .22 caliber but its fun.
Steve

Like this? That does look like fun.

 

[steven Durham]

Just like Steve McQueen used in " Wanted Dead or Alive " but just uses .22 ammunition

 

[Stangrcr1]

I have the Bersa and it is the family favorite. Well, everyone except me, I prefer my Kimber 45 for shooting range time.

For carry, I really like my Ruger LCP in 380. Fits easy in a pocket and smaller than the Bersa.

The Bersa has been accurate for me and like I said, preferred by the wife, daughter and her husband. It fits their smaller hands more comfortably than any of the other guns here.

Have had no issues with the Bersa. Never a feed problem with any ammo so far, round nose and hollowpoint, probably 1k rounds through it so far. It has gotten cleaned every 100 rounds or after every shooting session and lubed with Break Free. Probably needs the springs replaced, but the slide is still tight.

Last family shooting session we had the Kimber 45, the Bersa 380, Ruger SR9, Ruger LCP in 380, 3 North American Arms 22s, and several long guns. They all kept fighting over the Bersa on who shoots it next.

 

[Spyderdregg]

I love my Sig,most realiable,nicest shooting pistol Ive ever fired,but a bit to bulky for a carry gun.So Im hitting the gun show this weekend to find me something smaller,Hell maybe Ill go revolver:thumbsup:

 

[Txpowdercoater]

damn dude, none of those mentioned, some for lack of stopping power, most for lack of availability of ammo. check and see if you can find 32, or 9x18 mak loads ( there are no 9x18 loads that are powerful enough to make the gun hard to hold, as in very little recoil, they are a tiny load).

anyways, in that price range, you can get a new american made KelTec pistol, I carry the single stack pf-9 daily and either the .40 , both are keltecs, both are flawless, and both are lightweight carry pistols.

btw, what makes all steel construction a bonus? you want a CC you WILL carry EVERYDAY, not something heavy and bulky, do some more research, go to the range and shoot the different guns, most ranges let you try different guns if they have them or go with friends and shoot theirs. remember one thing, its not the biggest baddest gun you find, its the one you WILL and CAN carry each and every day.

 

[mipowdercoater]

Ruger p95 you can get it for 299 17 shots of 9mm pretty good deal for a nice firearm.

 

[turftech 1]

damn dude, none of those mentioned, some for lack of stopping power, most for lack of availability of ammo. check and see if you can find 32, or 9x18 mak loads ( there are no 9x18 loads that are powerful enough to make the gun hard to hold, as in very little recoil, they are a tiny load).

anyways, in that price range, you can get a new american made KelTec pistol, I carry the single stack pf-9 daily and either the .40 , both are keltecs, both are flawless, and both are lightweight carry pistols.

btw, what makes all steel construction a bonus? you want a CC you WILL carry EVERYDAY, not something heavy and bulky, do some more research, go to the range and shoot the different guns, most ranges let you try different guns if they have them or go with friends and shoot theirs. remember one thing, its not the biggest baddest gun you find, its the one you WILL and CAN carry each and every day.

Hmmm, something to think about there. In my area, 9 x 18 is about the only 9mm ammo you CAN find though, which is why I was drawn to it. The only places that have 9 x 19 in stock will only sell you a box if you buy a gun from them. .380 is readily available, but I don't like it as much. In the 9 x 18, I can get a 95 grain JHP that averages well over 1100 fps and energy of 320-325. Not the greatest, but fairly comparable to lighter 9 x 19 rounds.

I will look a little harder for some Kel-tecs to try, they go fast around here.

 

[Txpowdercoater]

9x18 is available because everybody knows its not so bueno. I'd rather carry a .22 mini mag from NAA in my pocket. even .22 ammo is hard to get now but the ammo scare will go away soon enough and you will get the common 9 and .40 etc easily again. walmart and academy sell ammo, just have to be at the right time now.

 

[WLB]

Of the 4 guns that you list, I would choose the PA-63. It's light enough and thin enough to conceal easily, the double action makes the first shot quick without having to remember to click a safety off, and the several that I, and a few friends have, have all been absolutely reliable. Mine has well over a thousand rounds through it and I can't recall ever having a jam. I have only used clean surplus ammo so can't speak for commercial or handloads.

When I bought mine the price was $99.00. Obama has sure been good for the gun dealers.

I have seen several that had REALLY HEAVY trigger pulls. I don't know this for sure but it seems like they had the wrong hammer spring installed. You could tell the spring was near or at coil bind just before it fired. Pull the spring and shorten it a little until the pull seems right and all is well. I don't remember how much I cut off but I just cut one coil at a time until it felt reasonable. Of course if you take off too much you will get misfires.

This is just my opinion, and everyone is entitled to there own, but I think for home defense you need something with more stopping power like a 45 auto. I frequently carry a PA63 for the reasons stated above but consider it a face gun. If you need to use it you shoot for the face multiple times. If this is your first handgun--PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE. There is no substitute for live fire practice.

 

[Neck]

What will the rifle be used for primarily?

 

[metal man]

Iraqveteran8888 - YouTube
he has vids on different guns and what he thinks of them , maybe poke around and see . as for me i think i would look at the 9x18 , its not as common as the 9 or 380 but that also means ammo isnt as picked over and you can get boxes of surplus .

 

[texasfabguy]

My wife carry's a Taurus PT 709 slim 9mm,I carry a Charter undercover 38+p revolver as our everyday. 9mm is hard to find right now,but 38 is not. I will be getting a Taurus 605 poly 357 soon,going to have the moon clip mod done and also the cylinder worked so I can shoot 9mm,38spl,38+p,357mag all out of the same gun.

 

[juanblanco1911]

Smith and Wesson mp40 trust me weather its to have at home or CC great gun

 

[turftech 1]

Iraqveteran8888 - YouTube
he has vids on different guns and what he thinks of them , maybe poke around and see . as for me i think i would look at the 9x18 , its not as common as the 9 or 380 but that also means ammo isnt as picked over and you can get boxes of surplus .

Ha, those guys are actually the ones who turned me onto the Makarov chambered, Eastern Block military surplus pistols. They love em, they are featured in this vid, then they have a vid where they just compare a bunch of the Eastern Block PPK clones. It is generally considered that the East German Makarov, and the CZ 82 are the best all around models, with the FEG PA 63 and the P64 being the best for CC.
Hickok 45, MillerUSAF, and a bunch of the more popular reviewers have done reviews of the CZ 82, and all of them love it. That's what drew me to it. Most love the P64 and the PA63, but some don't like the recoil, and my wife will also be shooting/using this gun from time to time, so recoil has to be considered. Even the people who like the lighter alloy PA63 will tell you that an hour at the range with it will leave your palm raw from the snappy recoil.

Anyway, I bought the CZ 82, and so far am thrilled. It is the easiest auto pistol to handle that I have used, super easy to field strip. I took it home, field stripped it, disassembled it, took the grips off, springs out, cleaned it all really good. I WISH my Ruger 22/45 was this easy to take apart and put back together!


Funny thing, right after I got the gun, I was at a sporting goods store looking at ammo boxes, and a shipment of 3,000 rounds of 9 x 19 Luger came in! GRRRRRRR, I bought a case, 1,000 rounds for $250 for my friend. He's been looking for some for about 3 weeks. He will be a happy guy!

Iraqiveteran8888 on the Mak line

Iraqiveteran8888 ultimate Makarov showdown

Hickok45 on the CZ 82

 

[WrenchDad]

I've never fired any of the guns you listed So I cant give any feed back on how they handle,however I did some forum search on the Bersa because there was one at an auction I go to. Most of the feed back I saw was mixed Some loved it some hated it. But most said it was OK, nothing special but not junk. They said a good gun for fun at the range but probally would'nt trust it to carry. It nis a nice looking gun.
I have a high point .380 and I love it.When I got ammo it was easy to find but I just bought target stuff. It's a cheep gun but Ive never had any trouble with it ,no jams,fairly compact,not great on acuracy but not terrible either. It's not easy to take apart though because it's all roll pins.

Just some feedback.

 

[INJUNTOM]

I don't like carrying anything too heavy or bulky, so for me I want a single stack magazine and a polymer gun. There are lots of nice guns, and many of the ones listed and recommended here are great guns, butmany are too heavy or bulky for me and my carry style.

I don't wear a belt and not big on oversize button up shirts. Just a T shirt and a Desantis "Insider" holster at the 4 O'clock position. I'm allowed to have 3 guns on my permit so I choose them strategically: I have a Glock 27 .40 subcompact on there that's double stack and mainly only use it if I go down to the shop late at night and it's located not too far from the doorway ready for home invasion type stuff. Also it's nice to slip into the pocket if I go outside to lock the truck, take out the trash, etc., and also nice to have for road trips - a small one in the wasteband and .40 somewhere close by.

The Glock is carryable, but does become a pain. Next up is my Ruger LCP - almost forget it's there, very light, very compact, only drawback is it's really hard to handle, and well it's just a .380, but carried it daily for a couple years up until a month or so ago when I got my Ruger LC9. Considerably heavier and bulkier than the LCP, but still very compact and light. And it's at least 9mm. Been carrying it daily.

Sad thing about getting the LC9 is that I had to take my S&W 642 off my permit. It was a nice little pocket gun for the jacket in the winter, but really a little too bulky for me personally with IWB

If a person wears a belt, then the weight may not matter, but the bulkiness might. Full size guns, Double stack magazines, and revolvers are thick. A fire chief customer of mine carries full size guns in a leather OWB holster with a button up shirt. You can just make out the bottom of the holster showing below the shirt line, but if you didn't know it was there you may just think it's a knife or cel phone case.

 

[INJUNTOM]

Here's pics of the 3 on my permit and my S&W 642 for comparisons purposes.