Brexit
- Thread starter Newoldstock
- Start date
- Tags brexit
Good for Britain, I hear the Netherlands is right behind them as well. The EU was always a bad idea, I never understood the point of it until I was talking to my buddy. Apparently George Soros said it was just a way for rich people to make even more money without having to deal with the quagmire of all the different laws of all the different countries of Europe. Which makes perfect sense.
We also took a hit and lost a lot of money as well, but it will come back just will take time.
We also took a hit and lost a lot of money as well, but it will come back just will take time.
I checked my stocks and I lost 2.38 percent. Also checked the graph of the last 3 months and there were 4 times that losses exceeded 2.38 percent yet my stocks are still up roughly 4 percent for the 3 months. Not that I know much about the stock market but it seemed like they were about due for a downward hit anyway.
Trouble with a federation is it comes apart too.
I seem to recall the southern Colonials did not like the whole taxation without proper representation thing.
So 2/3 of them opt to leave ( well done too! )
In 2015 the Scot's decided not to follow suit.
The Irish decided it decades earlier and never looked back
In 1980 the Quebec majority decided to stay and but they put it too a vote some years later again just to be sure they wanted to stay.
So what is or is not divisible depends on the will of the people in the end + the will of the people who are going to try and force them to stay.
401K or RRSP as we know it.
Great idea if you get in early and nothing bad ever happens.
The Social security thing is all the fault of the government kicking the can down the road.
We have it up here too Plus something called Canada pension ( the later has just been expanded but still kicks in at 65 too ).
The real difference is I pay more taxes tp cover medicare, old age security, ( and the CPP comes right off my check ).
The folks that run both of these can make bigger and smarter investment choices than I can because of the size of the funds.
Just about any big find is more efficient than a single person trying to do the same.
30 years of stepping out of the way of market and waiting for trickle down to work has seen us bail out the whole system when it blows up.
30 years of free trade has gutted the economy of good jobs.
No one has proposed an alternative to the past 30 years and those in power keep suggesting a band aid here and some paint and Spackle on the cracks over there will make the hurting stop and put the house in order.
Brexit for better or worse ( a long with Sanders, Trump and a long list of other squeaky wheels from what used to be called fringe parties ) has torn the band aid off a stinky festering wound that will not be ignored any longer...
It's a whole new world....
I seem to recall the southern Colonials did not like the whole taxation without proper representation thing.
So 2/3 of them opt to leave ( well done too! )
In 2015 the Scot's decided not to follow suit.
The Irish decided it decades earlier and never looked back
In 1980 the Quebec majority decided to stay and but they put it too a vote some years later again just to be sure they wanted to stay.
So what is or is not divisible depends on the will of the people in the end + the will of the people who are going to try and force them to stay.
401K or RRSP as we know it.
Great idea if you get in early and nothing bad ever happens.
The Social security thing is all the fault of the government kicking the can down the road.
We have it up here too Plus something called Canada pension ( the later has just been expanded but still kicks in at 65 too ).
The real difference is I pay more taxes tp cover medicare, old age security, ( and the CPP comes right off my check ).
The folks that run both of these can make bigger and smarter investment choices than I can because of the size of the funds.
Just about any big find is more efficient than a single person trying to do the same.
30 years of stepping out of the way of market and waiting for trickle down to work has seen us bail out the whole system when it blows up.
30 years of free trade has gutted the economy of good jobs.
No one has proposed an alternative to the past 30 years and those in power keep suggesting a band aid here and some paint and Spackle on the cracks over there will make the hurting stop and put the house in order.
Brexit for better or worse ( a long with Sanders, Trump and a long list of other squeaky wheels from what used to be called fringe parties ) has torn the band aid off a stinky festering wound that will not be ignored any longer...
It's a whole new world....
Newoldstock, I completely agree with you. However, we are way past the time when it would be possible for a small group of people to overthrow the government and start over. They would have absolutely NO compunctions in shooting and killing everybody who tries. That, or locking them away forever.
Get ready for camps and Soylent Green...
Get ready for camps and Soylent Green...
You don't need an insurrection.
Brexit proves you just need to vote and the whole pyramid is in danger.
People see it for what it is at that point..
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2016/apr/08/martin-rowson-on-the-fallout-from-the-panama-papers-cartoon#img-1
Brexit proves you just need to vote and the whole pyramid is in danger.
People see it for what it is at that point..
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2016/apr/08/martin-rowson-on-the-fallout-from-the-panama-papers-cartoon#img-1
Not too often I post something that people really comment on and take a passionate stand in.
A political thread with no partizan politics or name calling no less....
We have tapped into a deep seated grievance with the status quo and no one is attacking anyone else as the scape goat.
Now if that translates into votes my friends....
Anger pointed in the right direction, how far we have come.
A political thread with no partizan politics or name calling no less....
We have tapped into a deep seated grievance with the status quo and no one is attacking anyone else as the scape goat.
Now if that translates into votes my friends....
Anger pointed in the right direction, how far we have come.
I just read an article on Brexit that sums up what I have been feeling myself for a very very long time.
But as the article states not one politician is yet had the nerve to open Pandora's box and start talking about the real causes and solutions to our economic problems.
But if you like me and your angry maybe this will give you something crow about.
Vindication that we are not right wing or left wing lunatic and racists.
We have been kicked around a long time now and are going to start kicking back.
Louis-Philippe Rochon is a professor at Laurentian University and co-editor of the Review of Keynesian Economics.
In the end, what was meant to be a referendum about the economic benefits of remaining in the European Union proved to be about everything but. There will be countless analyses of the results and of the reasons that motivated the British people to vote to leave the European Union, but I fear that very few of these analyses will even come close to addressing the true underlying forces at work.
As an economist, I see in Brexit the revolt of the working class, lashing out at the institutions that have imposed unfair economic policies.
This was a referendum on a failed economic regime that has been unable and unwilling to provide for all its citizens as opposed to the very few.
Voting to remain in the EU was seen as a tacit approval of the institutional status quo.
This was captured perfectly by one voter who said: “If you’ve got money, you vote in. If you haven’t got money, you vote out.” Indeed, in the past three decades, economic policies have been largely designed to benefit the economic and financial elites.
In this age of financialization and of neoliberal economics, the rich have become richer and more powerful, thereby extracting a greater share of the proverbial economic pie.
They have influenced policies in ways that have become all too familiar.
Since the early 1980s, the focus of policy has been privatization, deregulation and liberalization. As a result, profits have soared, but wages have remained stagnant at best. Income inequality has increased to levels not seen since the 1920s.
In Europe, institutions like the European Union were carefully designed to encourage and protect the mantra of free-market economics. The overwhelming preoccupation of the EU has been to protect the interests of finance.
This was on full display during the bloc’s negotiations with Greece.
In this instance, Greece was brought down to its knees for daring to talk back to the Great and Powerful Oz.
During all this, workers have remained largely silent.
Since the financial crisis of 2007-08, they have tried to express their frustration through such movements as Occupy Wall Street, only to be silenced.
Those in power have refused to listen to the complaints of the working class, and continued to impose austerity in the name of sound finance.
Then came Brexit.
I must confess, the result was predictable. Yes, there was some xenophobia involved, but this too was the result of failed economic models.
There is increasing research on the relationship between income inequality and poverty, and the rise of far-right political parties.
As inequality rises (along with poverty), voters are more willing to listen to rhetoric that lays blame on “others.” Populist movements all over Europe are reaping the benefits of such anger.
The same phenomenon is playing out in the United States with Donald Trump, as well as in France, Italy, the Netherlands, Belgium, Sweden, Denmark, Greece and Germany.
In many of these European countries, there are now cries for their own referendums.
Europe will not be the same. And we must lay blame where blame is deserved.
In essence, the lesson of neoliberalism is simple: When you kick around the working class for three decades, the working class eventually kicks back. And now, the revenge of the working class has begun.
Yet the political left must bear some responsibility as well for its failure to clearly articulate a legitimate and credible alternative to the dominant view.
Instead, it has largely accepted to play within the rules of the game written by the right: It has continued austerity policies, furthered the deregulation and financial liberalization agenda and paid lip service to income inequality, to name but a few policies. (We have fared a bit better in Canada under our new government … so far.)
I predict that most forthcoming analysis will miss the mark completely.
It will seek to blame xenophobes and not come close to questioning the very economic policies that have marginalized and alienated voters.
The rise of the far right is the working classes’ way of telling us they are not happy with the economic status quo.
The real questions have also been ignored, because to ask the right questions will require some tough self-examination, and once you pull on that thread, who knows what will come loose.
Who will be brave enough to pull on that thread?
But as the article states not one politician is yet had the nerve to open Pandora's box and start talking about the real causes and solutions to our economic problems.
But if you like me and your angry maybe this will give you something crow about.
Vindication that we are not right wing or left wing lunatic and racists.
We have been kicked around a long time now and are going to start kicking back.
Louis-Philippe Rochon is a professor at Laurentian University and co-editor of the Review of Keynesian Economics.
In the end, what was meant to be a referendum about the economic benefits of remaining in the European Union proved to be about everything but. There will be countless analyses of the results and of the reasons that motivated the British people to vote to leave the European Union, but I fear that very few of these analyses will even come close to addressing the true underlying forces at work.
As an economist, I see in Brexit the revolt of the working class, lashing out at the institutions that have imposed unfair economic policies.
This was a referendum on a failed economic regime that has been unable and unwilling to provide for all its citizens as opposed to the very few.
Voting to remain in the EU was seen as a tacit approval of the institutional status quo.
This was captured perfectly by one voter who said: “If you’ve got money, you vote in. If you haven’t got money, you vote out.” Indeed, in the past three decades, economic policies have been largely designed to benefit the economic and financial elites.
In this age of financialization and of neoliberal economics, the rich have become richer and more powerful, thereby extracting a greater share of the proverbial economic pie.
They have influenced policies in ways that have become all too familiar.
Since the early 1980s, the focus of policy has been privatization, deregulation and liberalization. As a result, profits have soared, but wages have remained stagnant at best. Income inequality has increased to levels not seen since the 1920s.
In Europe, institutions like the European Union were carefully designed to encourage and protect the mantra of free-market economics. The overwhelming preoccupation of the EU has been to protect the interests of finance.
This was on full display during the bloc’s negotiations with Greece.
In this instance, Greece was brought down to its knees for daring to talk back to the Great and Powerful Oz.
During all this, workers have remained largely silent.
Since the financial crisis of 2007-08, they have tried to express their frustration through such movements as Occupy Wall Street, only to be silenced.
Those in power have refused to listen to the complaints of the working class, and continued to impose austerity in the name of sound finance.
Then came Brexit.
I must confess, the result was predictable. Yes, there was some xenophobia involved, but this too was the result of failed economic models.
There is increasing research on the relationship between income inequality and poverty, and the rise of far-right political parties.
As inequality rises (along with poverty), voters are more willing to listen to rhetoric that lays blame on “others.” Populist movements all over Europe are reaping the benefits of such anger.
The same phenomenon is playing out in the United States with Donald Trump, as well as in France, Italy, the Netherlands, Belgium, Sweden, Denmark, Greece and Germany.
In many of these European countries, there are now cries for their own referendums.
Europe will not be the same. And we must lay blame where blame is deserved.
In essence, the lesson of neoliberalism is simple: When you kick around the working class for three decades, the working class eventually kicks back. And now, the revenge of the working class has begun.
Yet the political left must bear some responsibility as well for its failure to clearly articulate a legitimate and credible alternative to the dominant view.
Instead, it has largely accepted to play within the rules of the game written by the right: It has continued austerity policies, furthered the deregulation and financial liberalization agenda and paid lip service to income inequality, to name but a few policies. (We have fared a bit better in Canada under our new government … so far.)
I predict that most forthcoming analysis will miss the mark completely.
It will seek to blame xenophobes and not come close to questioning the very economic policies that have marginalized and alienated voters.
The rise of the far right is the working classes’ way of telling us they are not happy with the economic status quo.
The real questions have also been ignored, because to ask the right questions will require some tough self-examination, and once you pull on that thread, who knows what will come loose.
Who will be brave enough to pull on that thread?
As a further comment on my previous post this is an expert from an article with a different take on Brexit.
We are not ignorant masses and do not need to be lead by rich elites, but I think this is a very commonly head view by people that do not really have to work for a living.....
In a column for Foreign Policy Magazine, Council on Foreign Relations member James Traub argues that the elite need to “rise up” against the “mindlessly angry” ignorant masses in order to prevent globalization from being derailed by the populist revolt that led to Brexit and the rise of Donald Trump.
Concerned that, “Today’s citizen revolt — in the United States, Britain, and Europe — may upend politics as nothing else has in my lifetime,” Traub notes that Brexit was an “utter repudiation of….bankers and economists” and an example of how “extremism has gone mainstream”.
Citing the potential for Trump to split the Republican Party even if he loses and the increasing unpopularity of France’s socialist government, Traub argues that establishment political parties in major western countries must “combine forces to keep out the nationalists”.
“With prospects of flat growth in Europe and minimal income growth in the United States, voters are rebelling against their dismal long-term prospects,” writes Traub. “And globalization means culture as well as economics: Older people whose familiar world is vanishing beneath a welter of foreign tongues and multicultural celebrations are waving their fists at cosmopolitan elites.”
Traub’s tone is so contemptuous, he even describes the pro-Trump Republican base as “know nothing” voters and sneers at voters in Poland for being concerned about “values and tradition,” while stressing that the push for further globalization will pit “poor and non-white and marginal citizens” against “working-class and middle-class whites,” whom he describes as angry “fist-shakers”.
Traub admits that his outlook is “elitist” but that, “It is necessary to say that people are deluded and that the task of leadership is to un-delude them.”
We are not ignorant masses and do not need to be lead by rich elites, but I think this is a very commonly head view by people that do not really have to work for a living.....
In a column for Foreign Policy Magazine, Council on Foreign Relations member James Traub argues that the elite need to “rise up” against the “mindlessly angry” ignorant masses in order to prevent globalization from being derailed by the populist revolt that led to Brexit and the rise of Donald Trump.
Concerned that, “Today’s citizen revolt — in the United States, Britain, and Europe — may upend politics as nothing else has in my lifetime,” Traub notes that Brexit was an “utter repudiation of….bankers and economists” and an example of how “extremism has gone mainstream”.
Citing the potential for Trump to split the Republican Party even if he loses and the increasing unpopularity of France’s socialist government, Traub argues that establishment political parties in major western countries must “combine forces to keep out the nationalists”.
“With prospects of flat growth in Europe and minimal income growth in the United States, voters are rebelling against their dismal long-term prospects,” writes Traub. “And globalization means culture as well as economics: Older people whose familiar world is vanishing beneath a welter of foreign tongues and multicultural celebrations are waving their fists at cosmopolitan elites.”
Traub’s tone is so contemptuous, he even describes the pro-Trump Republican base as “know nothing” voters and sneers at voters in Poland for being concerned about “values and tradition,” while stressing that the push for further globalization will pit “poor and non-white and marginal citizens” against “working-class and middle-class whites,” whom he describes as angry “fist-shakers”.
Traub admits that his outlook is “elitist” but that, “It is necessary to say that people are deluded and that the task of leadership is to un-delude them.”
Last edited: