Help! Removed governor then cannot start/very hard to turn engine over... Binds?
- Thread starter PhilosophStein
- Start date
- Tags bind governor remove turnover
I did not think of this earlier is there any chance you still had oil in this motor when you laid it over on its Side the oil can weep past the rings to the top of the piston pull your spark plug is it wet with oil? Yes/No install the side cover set lash does it rotate free one finger on the flywheel should spin when you get the magnet to the coil this should be the hardest spot to spin past if you have bind any where along the 720°make a Witness mark and note if it was the first rotation or the second rotation
360° 360°
Sent from my iPhone using Mores code
360° 360°
Sent from my iPhone using Mores code
I can't recall if I removed the oil first before removing the flywheel.... Thus, some oil may have weeped and fouled the plug... However, after breaking the pull start, I made sure the plug was clean on all subsequent attempts with the drill start method....
Two of my dad's mechanic friends are going to look at the engine soon, so I am not going to be trying anything more.
Two of my dad's mechanic friends are going to look at the engine soon, so I am not going to be trying anything more.
Little Update: I got it running today!!! :laugh:
After reading several threads and other sites with small engine info, my Dad and I decided to try again. I had a specific plan of steps to follow this time. Also big disclaimer: I decided to do all these things without engine oil in it since it was still "wet" inside the case and I have seen so many yt vids of ppl trying to burn up an engine that I wasn't afraid to run it without oil at idle speeds...
When I first started troubleshooting today, the engine was in this state:
1) First thing I did was to get a feel for how much total endplay there was in the crank. It felt like a good 2 to 3mm of endplay. Next, I wanted to see what the "baseline" resistance to turning the engine over with the drill felt like. I did this for three different locations of crank endplay: flywheel nut farthest out from block, centered in between, and then flywheel nut closest to block. I found that the least resistance to drill rotating the crank was with it centered.
2) Now I installed the side cover, but before doing so, I cut up several strips of cardboard to use as a simulation gasket. I did not want to buy these gaskets ahead of time, in case it turned out to be the bearings got damaged somehow so I wouldn't have to order things twice. However, my Dad's mechanic friends took too long to take a look it, so I decided to give this a go ahead. Also, it didn't fully occur to me how the gasket thickness will determine endplay in the crank until I realized that the cam gear on the crank butts up against the bearing in the side cover.... For some reason, I kept thinking that there was a lot more space between them. Anyway, after installing the side cover with the faux gasket, I checked endplay feel and felt it to be about 10-30 thousandths of inch ; thus I was on the right track. The drill easily turned the engine over.
3) Now I was ready to install the rocker arms again. Removed the side cover, placed the lifters in then the cam in dot to dot. Reinstalled the side cover w/ faux gasket. Now I installed pushrods and the rocker arms and set the valve lash correctly. The drill turned the engine over easily, but with slightly more resistance than in step 2.
4) Now it was time to install the spark plug: the almost true test. Before doing so, I poured a tiny amount of engine oil inside the hole and cycled the engine several times. With the plug installed, there was no change in cranking resistance when the drill was applied.
5) Flywheel and airbox were installed, then it was showtime!!!
6) Gas lever ON, throttle lever to idle, Choke full: spin spin spin spin spin
spin spin spin spin.......... spin spin spin hiccup; hiccup... spin spin hiccup
hiccup hiccup, BOOOOOOOM HUGE backfire that scared the crap outta my Dad hehehe
few more hiccups then it fired up!!!! The 3/4 inch socket came off the flywheel nut more easily than i expected!
I only let it idle bc there was no oil... Pulled the pplug wire... this could have been a fluke :blink:
7) tried to start again... spin spin hiccup hiccup, then vroom!! idling...
We both learned a lot through this process and I am ready to order some side cover gaskets and a new pull starter.
In terms of the billet rod and flywheel, how do I know which rod is the correct one?
there are so many different choices that are slightly different in size it seems. I have the 6.5 hp 196cc GX200 clone that came OEM with the Baja Warrior: 200cc 6.5 Hp Mini Bike Engine for the Baja Mini Bike MB200 (Baja Heat, Mini Baja, Baja Warrior) [Compatible With: Baja Motorsports] : Monster Scooter Parts
After reading several threads and other sites with small engine info, my Dad and I decided to try again. I had a specific plan of steps to follow this time. Also big disclaimer: I decided to do all these things without engine oil in it since it was still "wet" inside the case and I have seen so many yt vids of ppl trying to burn up an engine that I wasn't afraid to run it without oil at idle speeds...
When I first started troubleshooting today, the engine was in this state:
- side cover off
- sparkplug removed
- cam removed
- rockers, pushrods, and lifters removed
- airbox off
- flywheel off
- flywheel nut on shaft (use for drill starting)
- no rope start
1) First thing I did was to get a feel for how much total endplay there was in the crank. It felt like a good 2 to 3mm of endplay. Next, I wanted to see what the "baseline" resistance to turning the engine over with the drill felt like. I did this for three different locations of crank endplay: flywheel nut farthest out from block, centered in between, and then flywheel nut closest to block. I found that the least resistance to drill rotating the crank was with it centered.
2) Now I installed the side cover, but before doing so, I cut up several strips of cardboard to use as a simulation gasket. I did not want to buy these gaskets ahead of time, in case it turned out to be the bearings got damaged somehow so I wouldn't have to order things twice. However, my Dad's mechanic friends took too long to take a look it, so I decided to give this a go ahead. Also, it didn't fully occur to me how the gasket thickness will determine endplay in the crank until I realized that the cam gear on the crank butts up against the bearing in the side cover.... For some reason, I kept thinking that there was a lot more space between them. Anyway, after installing the side cover with the faux gasket, I checked endplay feel and felt it to be about 10-30 thousandths of inch ; thus I was on the right track. The drill easily turned the engine over.
3) Now I was ready to install the rocker arms again. Removed the side cover, placed the lifters in then the cam in dot to dot. Reinstalled the side cover w/ faux gasket. Now I installed pushrods and the rocker arms and set the valve lash correctly. The drill turned the engine over easily, but with slightly more resistance than in step 2.
4) Now it was time to install the spark plug: the almost true test. Before doing so, I poured a tiny amount of engine oil inside the hole and cycled the engine several times. With the plug installed, there was no change in cranking resistance when the drill was applied.
5) Flywheel and airbox were installed, then it was showtime!!!
6) Gas lever ON, throttle lever to idle, Choke full: spin spin spin spin spin
spin spin spin spin.......... spin spin spin hiccup; hiccup... spin spin hiccup
hiccup hiccup, BOOOOOOOM HUGE backfire that scared the crap outta my Dad hehehe
few more hiccups then it fired up!!!! The 3/4 inch socket came off the flywheel nut more easily than i expected!
I only let it idle bc there was no oil... Pulled the pplug wire... this could have been a fluke :blink:
7) tried to start again... spin spin hiccup hiccup, then vroom!! idling...
We both learned a lot through this process and I am ready to order some side cover gaskets and a new pull starter.
In terms of the billet rod and flywheel, how do I know which rod is the correct one?
there are so many different choices that are slightly different in size it seems. I have the 6.5 hp 196cc GX200 clone that came OEM with the Baja Warrior: 200cc 6.5 Hp Mini Bike Engine for the Baja Mini Bike MB200 (Baja Heat, Mini Baja, Baja Warrior) [Compatible With: Baja Motorsports] : Monster Scooter Parts
"Also big disclaimer: I decided to do all these things without engine oil in it since it was still "wet" inside the case and I have seen so many yt vids of ppl trying to burn up an engine that I wasn't afraid to run it without oil at idle speeds..."
Just because it's done on Youtube doesn't necessarily mean it's a good idea.
I like my bearings intact, that's why I run everything with oil IN the case, rather than just everything being a little wet from the oil that was there originally. That oil in the rod journal was probably gone after the first couple of seconds.
Just because it's done on Youtube doesn't necessarily mean it's a good idea.
I like my bearings intact, that's why I run everything with oil IN the case, rather than just everything being a little wet from the oil that was there originally. That oil in the rod journal was probably gone after the first couple of seconds.
One more question: For those without governors (but with upgraded parts like the rod and flywheel), have any of you thought of a tachometer?
I think I've seen some that just wrap around the spark plug wire a few times and they go for about $30-40.
I think with this at least, you can try to make sure you aren't over revving too much??
If I upgrade and then install in the minibike, I don't plan on riding full rpm too much anyway because the yard where I ride isn't that big. Maybe a few times up and down the street at 50-55mph, but not all the time...
I think I've seen some that just wrap around the spark plug wire a few times and they go for about $30-40.
I think with this at least, you can try to make sure you aren't over revving too much??
If I upgrade and then install in the minibike, I don't plan on riding full rpm too much anyway because the yard where I ride isn't that big. Maybe a few times up and down the street at 50-55mph, but not all the time...
Just get the billet. I can't say that it's worth it, because you could ride it and enjoy it with the gov. If you're in a small yard, a governed engine is plenty. What happens is you start to like the speed. You end up running it harder than you realize. It's expensive, and you'll never get much out of the motor when you decide to sell it, but it sure is a blast building these motors up. I bet you and your dad would love it. And, you don't have to worry about over-revving it.
I do have a tach on my kart, and I use it often. I probably don't rev much past 5,000 very often, but I've had it close to 8,000, and it is a blast. The tach you speak of is probably worth the price. They're fun to have, and they make figuring your speed easier. There are also many apps for smartphones that will help determine speed, but I can't speak of their accuracy. These will not give you RPMs, but you could use a speed calculator online to determine where you would be at 5500 RPMs, and then stay under that speed. FYI, if you're running a totally stock motor, your valve springs will probably float there anyway. Sometimes the overall poor quality of the stock parts will fail without a catastrophic explosion at a much lower speed. Now, after saying this, I did run an ungoverned clone for a couple months before I knew about all of the billet parts. It took time, but I saved up and went for it. These things are addictive, and I'm now ready for a totally new valve train that will handle my cam and springs heavier than 18lb.
I do have a tach on my kart, and I use it often. I probably don't rev much past 5,000 very often, but I've had it close to 8,000, and it is a blast. The tach you speak of is probably worth the price. They're fun to have, and they make figuring your speed easier. There are also many apps for smartphones that will help determine speed, but I can't speak of their accuracy. These will not give you RPMs, but you could use a speed calculator online to determine where you would be at 5500 RPMs, and then stay under that speed. FYI, if you're running a totally stock motor, your valve springs will probably float there anyway. Sometimes the overall poor quality of the stock parts will fail without a catastrophic explosion at a much lower speed. Now, after saying this, I did run an ungoverned clone for a couple months before I knew about all of the billet parts. It took time, but I saved up and went for it. These things are addictive, and I'm now ready for a totally new valve train that will handle my cam and springs heavier than 18lb.
