I think its a Savage

[Tunnel vision]

Hi all, new forum member here and have been lurking for a few days now.

First post and I have some (many) questions.

I have a friend that needed some fabrication and welding done, that's what I do for a living and while we were talking at his shop I seen this nifty little mini bike setting there and asked him what his plans were with it.

He told me he bought it for his boys and they weren't interested in it at all, so I told him I had a mini bike when I was young and loved it and it just so happens my 8 & 11 year old asked me to build them one.

So I said, heck I'll trade you the work you need done for it, and he said lets load it up!

Well with that being said, I brought it home and started a research for parts and came to the conclusion that it is a Savage mini bike from the sixty's, the motor(in Pieces) is a West Bend 580 Super Bee, however it will need a new flywheel because it has a few fins broke off.

I not sure what model the bike is, so maybe someone could chime in.

My thoughts were to just put a motor in it, so I had this 6hp Koehler and put it in there but its just to big, so my thought are to rebuild the West Bend or drop a B&S 5 hp in it and let the boys ride it and restore it later.

Does anyone know what color the frame was from the factory?
I sure the seat was black but maybe red and faded to pink?

Thank you in advance for any information you might be able to share!

 

[KustomKartKid]

Yep that's a Savage....considered by many to be the "Holy Grail" of mini bikes (better not let your friend find out ). I was never a big fan of that luggage rack option but it's welded on so.....

never saw one painted green before...original color was red.

Seat is correct style...most I've seen were black and had the name SAVAGE embossed in gold. I don't know how it got to be pink I think sonebody added that square pad to the bottom of the kickstand as well as the fold-up foot pegs...should be straight piece of sold bar all the way across. The little wedge shaped wing supports on the front down tubes are factory...that piece of plate globbed between the top two bars is not. Wheels are original Hands wheels with the tapered roller bearings.


Should have a jackshaft in it...rest of it all looks correct.

Please...get that awful Koehler out of there and put the Westbend back in...:doah: and ditch the cheap Chinese brake lever while your at it.

You will thank me when it comes time to $ell it :wink:



.

 

[Tunnel vision]

Thanks for the reply, the Kohler motor is just sitting in there and is coming back out

So the seat was red too? it must have set out in the sun to have turned pink???

The red paint was more than likely repainted green at some point, but looking at the scratches, its bare metal, grey primer and green top coat. I suppose it coat have been stripped of the red.

I realize someone added the kickstand plate, folding foot pegs and angle iron which I plan to remove, but I'm not seeing the cobbled on piece of plate your talking about, unless you are looking at the formed gas tank mount? I have the original gas tank too, looks like it was mounted to that plate with to band clamps, yes/no?

There is also a broken tab weld to the rear right down tube(see pic) that looks like it was factory welded, unlike the foot pegs and pad because its mig welded. I know anyone could have mig welded on there but back in the sixties mig welding was not very commend and pretty new technology.

Now weren't they available with the West Bend or B&S flat head 3.5hp?

And mine has two springs for the seat, other photos I have seen have one, and mine looks all factory.

 

[KustomKartKid]

That's a better view of that plate...it could be a factory bracket for the tank but usually the tank is attached to a bracket mounted right on the top of the Westbend engine itself.

I don't know what the hell that broken tab in the back was for...?

I have never seen a seat with 2 springs...but yours could be a later production and they made changes.:shrug:

I never saw a red seat..only black. If it doesn't have the word Savage embossed in it , it probably is not original and was likely re-covered at some point.

Is the seat pan made of pressed steel? Does it have a series of nails or tacks bent over to hold the material to the bottom of it?

I guess the bike could possibly have been ordered in green...most or all of the original brochure pics were in black and white so it's hard to tell what they all were.

I believe Berkely Engineering was the same company that made the marine jet drives but I'm not sure. Very low production numbers for these mini bikes...hence the scarcity of the bike, as well as information.


.

 

[Tunnel vision]

The tank bracket looks factory, it has draw formed recess's in it to accept the tank band but I'm only guessing.

I found an ad here on the forums that shows and says the Vanguard came with a B&S 3.5, so what I may do is find one and save the West bend for the restoration at a later date.

I know if it had a B&S on it the tank is mounted on the carb/motor, maybe because this on have the West Bend the welded the tank mount on huh?

I wish I could find the correct red color for the frame and color for the engine too...

 

[Tunnel vision]

Can a person still find/buy West Bend motor parts? seems like gaskets are all that avail.?

Is there anyone that specializes in rebuilding them?

 

[KustomKartKid]

yeah I have read where some came with a Briggs motor, but I have never seen a picture of one in a brochure. I have also seen a Clinton engine in one used for a cycle magazine test.

If it had an early Briggs with a Flowjet carb, that could explain the auxiliary tank mount. The later Briggs with the tank mounted carb probably may not fit the frame.

You can still find anything you need for a Westbend engine......

 

[Tunnel vision]

would you have a contact for some that knows about the west bend?

 

[KustomKartKid]

There's a guy named Dave Bonbright that works on Westbends, the kart guys use him...but I have never dealt with him personally.

Maybe member Louie Figone will see this thread...he's a 2-stroke kart guy.

 

[Tunnel vision]

Thank you!

 

[Havasu Dave]

Member Frank Davis and a couple others on here are plugged into the Oregon vintage kart scene and probably know of some more local sources for West Bends.

From what I gather, the Savage had the Clinton A400 engine, and the Super Savage had the West Bend 580. But like Kustom Kart said, there is not a lot of information out there.

And yes, this is also the bike on my bucket list.

 

[Tunnel vision]

Hi Havasu Dave!

Lake Havasu is my favorite place on the planet, we go down to desert storm every year, love that place.

I'm not really mini bike savvy, I'm more into high performance boats myself, but my boys would like one so I came here to ask questions.

I didn't know this bike was so rare and sought after, maybe I should sell/trade it to someone who would appreciate it and get my boys something else, they both have new quads but now they want a mini bike, go figure!

If I just put a B&S on it they could ride it and we could restore it and the super bee later I suppose.

 

[Tunnel vision]

Does anyone know what tooth sprockets were on the jack shaft? They're cheap, but if anyone knows what they were that would be great!

I believe the jack shaft would have been .625" dia. because of the bearing mounts being only 1.375" dia.

I found a B&S 5 hp flat head but it think it might be too tall to fit, any ideas?

Still doing some research :shrug:

 

[james c]

Hi Havasu Dave!

Lake Havasu is my favorite place on the planet, we go down to desert storm every year, love that place.

I'm not really mini bike savvy, I'm more into high performance boats myself, but my boys would like one so I came here to ask questions.

I didn't know this bike was so rare and sought after, maybe I should sell/trade it to someone who would appreciate it and get my boys something else, they both have new quads but now they want a mini bike, go figure!

If I just put a B&S on it they could ride it and we could restore it and the super bee later I suppose.

i posted a wanted ad for one just recently, id be interested

 

[RobertC]

Yep that's a Savage....considered by many to be the "Holy Grail" of mini bikes (better not let your friend find out ). I was never a big fan of that luggage rack option but it's welded on so.....

never saw one painted green before...original color was red.

Seat is correct style...most I've seen were black and had the name SAVAGE embossed in gold. I don't know how it got to be pink I think sonebody added that square pad to the bottom of the kickstand as well as the fold-up foot pegs...should be straight piece of sold bar all the way across. The little wedge shaped wing supports on the front down tubes are factory...that piece of plate globbed between the top two bars is not. Wheels are original Hands wheels with the tapered roller bearings.


Should have a jackshaft in it...rest of it all looks correct.

Please...get that awful Koehler out of there and put the Westbend back in...:doah: and ditch the cheap Chinese brake lever while your at it.

You will thank me when it comes time to $ell it :wink:



.

Gerry your knowledge regarding the world of mini bikes amazes me.

When the Future World Famous Mini Bike Hall of Fame Museum opens, Gerry will have to add another K to his moniker:

Kustom Kart Kid....Kurator :thumbsup:

 

[Havasu Dave]

Hi Havasu Dave!

Lake Havasu is my favorite place on the planet, we go down to desert storm every year, love that place.

I'm not really mini bike savvy, I'm more into high performance boats myself, but my boys would like one so I came here to ask questions.

I didn't know this bike was so rare and sought after, maybe I should sell/trade it to someone who would appreciate it and get my boys something else, they both have new quads but now they want a mini bike, go figure!

If I just put a B&S on it they could ride it and we could restore it and the super bee later I suppose.

Cool! Bring the bike down next Spring. :laugh: We sat on the lake and watched a few of the races last year. It's hard to imagine the money and logistics of running boats with engines that cost a quarter mil each.

 

[Tunnel vision]

Hi everyone, this has became fun for the boys and I doing some research and we have decided to put the west bend on the shelf for a later date and ran across an old add where they were available with a 3hp B&S and they called it a Savage Vanguard.

I figured we would find that engine, not worrying about being period correct and let the boys ride it with that engine and green paint until we decide to restore it if we decide to, maybe/maybe not or sell it, but keep all original parts that came with it.

What is a good brand of centrifugal clutch to buy for this little Briggs?

Thanks,

Dan

 

[CarPlayLB]

Dan,
OldMiniBikes (tab at top of page) has the "MaxTorque" brand clutches...they are inexpensive and work well!

 

[Tunnel vision]

Thank you!

I just seen that, I have a small list of things to order right now!

Thanks again!

 

[INJUNTOM]

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