Massimo/MudStar MB200S review/ugrades
- Thread starter LIVIT
- Start date
LIVIT ,
I chose the few public forums i join carefully and have no "social media" presence at all . I run locked down ( No WiFi at all !!) and clean my comp several times a day with a few "special " tools , beside you can not live 50 miles beyond "the sticks" in the middle of a swamp (on a hard line ) and get what is not available in local stores without going online in an ever increasingly digital world today ....... You know as well as i do that there are "back channels" that are used and i have to have access to them to continue my service to our Nation under the oath we both swore ....... It is good to know there is a Brother here
believe it or not your handle and the way you write gives you away ........ While i work with digital pictures i am Old school as far as camera`s because the image can not be tampered with ......... I have not owned a camera in 5 decades !
This should make you laugh i am thinking about changing the throttle to a thumb type cause i misjudged a sharp turn and "grabbed" making it worse ending up off the path and into nest of black berry's (did not fall over !!) so my ankles are leaking ROTFLMAO !!! Being off a bike for 10 years , i did the same thing i did the first time i ever got on a bike as a kid on a Honda Q 50 . I slipped off the seat with my berries on the tire and "grabbing" so i aimed at the nearest tree to stop !! Both have A drum brake ..........LOL !!
I chose the few public forums i join carefully and have no "social media" presence at all . I run locked down ( No WiFi at all !!) and clean my comp several times a day with a few "special " tools , beside you can not live 50 miles beyond "the sticks" in the middle of a swamp (on a hard line ) and get what is not available in local stores without going online in an ever increasingly digital world today ....... You know as well as i do that there are "back channels" that are used and i have to have access to them to continue my service to our Nation under the oath we both swore ....... It is good to know there is a Brother here
believe it or not your handle and the way you write gives you away ........ While i work with digital pictures i am Old school as far as camera`s because the image can not be tampered with ......... I have not owned a camera in 5 decades !This should make you laugh i am thinking about changing the throttle to a thumb type cause i misjudged a sharp turn and "grabbed" making it worse ending up off the path and into nest of black berry's (did not fall over !!) so my ankles are leaking
ROTFLMAO !!! Being off a bike for 10 years , i did the same thing i did the first time i ever got on a bike as a kid on a Honda Q 50 . I slipped off the seat with my berries on the tire and "grabbing" so i aimed at the nearest tree to stop !! Both have A drum brake ..........LOL !!
toomanytoys , Nigel is a Cockatoo and a Drama queen though he is Evil that is indisputable , i live with a 43 year old Military/Blue and Gold hybrid Macaw .
His father was 32" long , mother 36" the pairing resulted resulted in a 5.5 Lb , 40", penny folding , extraordinary high level intellect , self taught (raised free range and like a little brother ) Person ! He was never treat trained ,everything he knows he learned on his own volition alone .
How many creatures do you know understands "I" and uses it ... Every morning he Marches up to me and say "( insert name) I want ........" and clearly states exactly what what he wants from me ! His vocabulary is over 500 words and he understands at least 4500 more words ! He has a sense of humor about what others say and laughs , his sense of humor is "small evil" malicious as all Psittacidae (parrots ,cockatoos and macaws ) exhibit and he holds Grudges for years ! If he does not like you he will not hesitate to Attack , to date he has bloody nose notched a 400 Lb Black Bear ,2 Pitbulls and a Rottweiler ! People he can judge accurately in one look wether they are good or bad and treat them accordingly so i keep a close eye/hand on him to prevent attacks , he can cut right through bone !!!
One young lady refused his demand "I want up" to preen her hair which she assented to many times before ,i watched him Plan his attack in revenge for the refusal at a party i was holding .1 hour later he marched across the yard and bit her just hard enough to leave a red mark without drawing blood and walked away just as i knew he would !! He gets amusement out of startling people ,my neighbor is the Only person he will let in the house ,he knows her but if he is out he will sneak under her truck and come out to bite the tip of her shoe or in sandals (her usual wear ) put the tip of his beak between her toes with No intent to hurt her just to make her jump ! Small evil .
His beak is Razor sharp ,when he was young he would blood bite me at least twice a week then run away . wings spread , laughing and saying "Ow , Ow ,Ow " ! The day my mother died i got her heart started again but she was gone and he Knew it . As the EMT`s wheeled her shell out he was on a door cutting 1/2" hardware cloth into little pieces !!! I walked up to him and offered a deal " If you don not bite me i will take care of you for the rest of My life !" and offered him my finger
which he lightly mouthed . Since that day over 30 years ago he has blood bitten me 15 times ,it was always over food and he was immediately apologetic as soon as i patched up the wound , he would come and push his head under the wounded hand . I do not fear my death , but i do deeply fear what will happen to him when i do because i have no living family or relatives and he has at Least 30-40 years of life left ........
Over my life i have known 2 African Gray`s that were 130 yr old and a Macaw that was 104 !! LOL 1 of the gray`s was a ships Captain`s companion who could curse you for 5 minutes straight and never use one of the 7 words (George Carlin RIP )and 5 generations of his family !!!!
Bird Brain is a misnomer when it comes to Psittacidae and Corvids ( Crows and Ravens ) .I replicated the same level he is on when my favorite bank lady was given a baby Blue and Gold and that little "lady " turned out to be just as intelligent at talking and adept at solving complex problems !!
I know this is a mini bike forum
but this was written to educate and bring an understanding of Who i deal with every day and night ....Keeping this thread on topic !! There is an off topic (mini bikes) area, please take it there and use it.
I'm not feeling very positive about dealing with Massimo. Yes the CS has been good. But I don't understand the following issues. I feel they have some serious quality control problems. CS rep told me that they build to order. Keep in mind there was no signs of any shipping damage. So the tech that built mine, added washers to chain tensioner and stripped threads doing it, too make up for a bent rim, warped tire and bad swingarm. Then it still was not properly aligned. Add the hole through weld near axle (major weak spot) If they build them there, then why is there issues with just sending parts ? Also still cant get a straight answer as to why the engine is marked 7.5hp and it's not, it's a 196 and getting that hp out of stock 196, is impossible. With the lack of parts support, bad QC. I cannot suggest anyone buying one.
I'm not feeling very positive about dealing with Massimo. Yes the CS has been good. But I don't understand the following issues. I feel they have some serious quality control problems. CS rep told me that they build to order. Keep in mind there was no signs of any shipping damage. So the tech that built mine, added washers to chain tensioner and stripped threads doing it, too make up for a bent rim, warped tire and bad swingarm. Then it still was not properly aligned. Add the hole through weld near axle (major weak spot) If they build them there, then why is there issues with just sending parts ? Also still cant get a straight answer as to why the engine is marked 7.5hp and it's not, it's a 196 and getting that hp out of stock 196, is impossible. With the lack of parts support, bad QC. I cannot suggest anyone buying one.
With what you have uncovered wrong with the bike you got i would feel the same way ! I inspected the welds on mine and found one weld that while not suspect stood out ,left side bottom frame member tube join "under" the engine . It has a raised "lump" from the welder holding for too long in the start of the weld . The "hole" you found on your swing arm to shock/axle plate looks very much like a weld stop flux "pool" that was not cleaned ,painted over and popped out leaving the white metal divot ( or is it an actual full burn through hole in the plate ?) that can be seen in the Fuzzy picture (sorry about that ) . From my observations the bikes are being welded using MIG flux core wire . The raised center of the welds and slightly irregular toes of the welds are "tells" that flux core is the process being used and the welder is of upper low/moderate skill and running the wire feed a bit fast . By painted visual inspection i would say the penetration of the welds is good but i would have to section a weld and acid test the weld /base metal interface to be sure with out doubt ......
The bent rim/warped tire says oh yes their QC is not good at the end point in the process .........In China !
I was a little surprised to find all the high torque nuts on my bike marked with a green "sharpie" indicating spec torqued though i have not checked .......
The motor yes they over state it`s HP in stock form and while not an Expert (Ex=has been , Spurt= A drip under pressure )intake filter , re jet ,re carb ,valve springs and header are as you say is "impossible" but a full out performance rebuild at $$$$ it could exceed 7.5 HP .......
The stripped adjuster thread , it`s Chinese steel/made need i say more ....... Upgrade/better quality adjusters are available .........
The attempt to correct the issues to make up for the bent rim and swing arm by adding washers to the tensioner and the treads stripped on the bolt must have been done in China (to keep up the quota ,the State and business`s are inseparable !) . Obviously Massimo does not inspect the bikes when they arrive in country ,their bad !
The lack of spares , it is too new in manufacture (as far as i know ) and China has been on Virus lock down until mere weeks ago ....... The first time i checked Massimo`s page there were no part pictures/diagrams or listing of parts for the 200S ,now it is populated with part pictures /prices and the few shared with the MB200 are available for purchase .......
Basically you got the Ultimate Lemon bike , no wonder you have a sour taste in your mind /mouth and rightly so !
The bent rim/warped tire says oh yes their QC is not good at the end point in the process .........In China !
I was a little surprised to find all the high torque nuts on my bike marked with a green "sharpie" indicating spec torqued though i have not checked .......
The motor yes they over state it`s HP in stock form and while not an Expert (Ex=has been , Spurt= A drip under pressure )intake filter , re jet ,re carb ,valve springs and header are as you say is "impossible" but a full out performance rebuild at $$$$ it could exceed 7.5 HP .......
The stripped adjuster thread , it`s Chinese steel/made need i say more ....... Upgrade/better quality adjusters are available .........
The attempt to correct the issues to make up for the bent rim and swing arm by adding washers to the tensioner and the treads stripped on the bolt must have been done in China (to keep up the quota ,the State and business`s are inseparable !) . Obviously Massimo does not inspect the bikes when they arrive in country ,their bad !
The lack of spares , it is too new in manufacture (as far as i know ) and China has been on Virus lock down until mere weeks ago ....... The first time i checked Massimo`s page there were no part pictures/diagrams or listing of parts for the 200S ,now it is populated with part pictures /prices and the few shared with the MB200 are available for purchase .......
Basically you got the Ultimate Lemon bike , no wonder you have a sour taste in your mind /mouth and rightly so !
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Sorry about fuzzy pics, my cam does not do up close/micro pics well at all. Yes, you can see all the way thru that hole in weld. The more I looked, that weld is really bad, under stress it would probably of broke off. I'm still on the learning level about welding. That chain tensioner that tech stripped threads on, had four more (all different size) washers than the other side. So they obviously knew there was a problem to begin with. That really concerns me !
The engine, not being the stickered 7.5hp is not a big deal, but why the sticker ? The engine seems to be of a good quality and I expected it too be since it is built by a Yamaha owned subsidiary company. I been running it on my CT200 and it runs great and I was impressed how well it does with the jackshaft/clutch and a 60T sprocket. I feel it's a good one too do a performance build on, least the one I got is.
I really wanted too keep the engine and just have them send parts or send me a complete bike minus engine. They don't seem to want to do either. I just cannot understand why this is an issue, if they assemble them there !!! Still waiting for email or call back from CS. If they don't respond soon, then I'm going to just get my money back and move on.
The engine, not being the stickered 7.5hp is not a big deal, but why the sticker ? The engine seems to be of a good quality and I expected it too be since it is built by a Yamaha owned subsidiary company. I been running it on my CT200 and it runs great and I was impressed how well it does with the jackshaft/clutch and a 60T sprocket. I feel it's a good one too do a performance build on, least the one I got is.
I really wanted too keep the engine and just have them send parts or send me a complete bike minus engine. They don't seem to want to do either. I just cannot understand why this is an issue, if they assemble them there !!! Still waiting for email or call back from CS. If they don't respond soon, then I'm going to just get my money back and move on.
This has gone from a dang saga to a true "Mini Series" Ha ! No matter where you buy one. You have 30 days from day of receiving it, to get a refund or exchange. Now if the second bike is damaged in shipping or is like mine, your still working with the original 30 days. So my 30 days is up on 1/20. I would be surprised if I even have the new bike by then. If it comes damaged etc.. then only option is parts replacement, yet they don't seem to have or want too just send out parts. Going back to running a full size dirt bike or 4 wheeler is my thought now !!!!!!
I bought my MB through Amazon so I could use my credit acct. Just spoke with their CS and they informed me that since I purchased it thru Amazon that, the warranty return/refund time starts all over again, regardless what Massimo CS is saying. Good thing I got it thru Amazon then ! Of course the price on Amazon now is much higher than it was when I ordered mine. $1,000 at that price point, I would say forget it, spend just a bit more and buy a Trail Master with Hydraulic brakes, TAV, better tires etc....
From now on this is the MB200S "Mini Series" Another update : Got a call from Massimo, apparently Amazon contacted them about all this bs ! Asked them why parts were not available etc...
So now, I'm getting a new swingarm assembly, chain tensioners etc... So glad I had not taken the engine off my CT and put it back on the MB or completely tore down the MB for shipping. Ha! amazing what happens when you properly "Shake the tree" to be continued.
So now, I'm getting a new swingarm assembly, chain tensioners etc... So glad I had not taken the engine off my CT and put it back on the MB or completely tore down the MB for shipping. Ha! amazing what happens when you properly "Shake the tree" to be continued.
LIVIT ,
I wish you could get a better picture of the weld so i could study it forensically ! I have more welding certs and non destructive testing certs than you can shake a stick at .... Cut my teeth on flame welding at 8 , electric welding at 14 with SMAW and gas MIG , went to Lincoln Electric at 17 and gained Nuke cert with all hand methods ,any position and restricted access . TIG is my favorite ! High school half a day then a short walk to Vo tech Machine shop training and working in a Gov contract shop for half a day every day after the first 6 months for pay ! I learn like most people breath ...........
You say you can see all the way thru that hole in weld ,is it into the tubing or completely thru the plate ?
Just an aside you know how to stop a crack in metal , drill a small hole where the crack ends and it will stop it in it`s tracks ! Not visually appealing but it works !
I wish you could get a better picture of the weld so i could study it forensically ! I have more welding certs and non destructive testing certs than you can shake a stick at .... Cut my teeth on flame welding at 8 , electric welding at 14 with SMAW and gas MIG , went to Lincoln Electric at 17 and gained Nuke cert with all hand methods ,any position and restricted access . TIG is my favorite ! High school half a day then a short walk to Vo tech Machine shop training and working in a Gov contract shop for half a day every day after the first 6 months for pay ! I learn like most people breath ...........
You say you can see all the way thru that hole in weld ,is it into the tubing or completely thru the plate ?
Just an aside you know how to stop a crack in metal , drill a small hole where the crack ends and it will stop it in it`s tracks ! Not visually appealing but it works !
Ah a burn thru ! That means it was not a cold weld to the swing arm tubing ,the plate got too hot and the wire poked a hole in it .
It happens and should have been filled in , the location looks bad but in my experience the strength of the plate is not compromised mechanical .
Now if it were an notch on the lower edge that would be a different and would worry me but that is me and my Opinion ......
It happens and should have been filled in , the location looks bad but in my experience the strength of the plate is not compromised mechanical .
Now if it were an notch on the lower edge that would be a different and would worry me but that is me and my Opinion ......
Got an email from CS at Massimo. Has pics showing what they took off another MB too send me. Suppose to be shipped today. So point made, no actual replacement parts support.
Before I agreed to anything. I spent some time going over all the rest of the frame real close. Did measurements and nothing else is off, actually surprisingly square. Rest of the welds look good.
Some things I found while comparing parts, taking measurements etc..
The MB is around 40lbs heavier than my CT. Part of that of course is the swingarm and shocks. Rest is from the frame being approximately %30 thicker tubing than the CT.
The front & rear axles, rims, brake drum, bearings etc.. on the MB are the same as the CT200U-EX. The fenders appear to be same fit. The headlight mount look the same. Headlight on MB I think is an LED and looks to be an easy swap.
Before I agreed to anything. I spent some time going over all the rest of the frame real close. Did measurements and nothing else is off, actually surprisingly square. Rest of the welds look good.
Some things I found while comparing parts, taking measurements etc..
The MB is around 40lbs heavier than my CT. Part of that of course is the swingarm and shocks. Rest is from the frame being approximately %30 thicker tubing than the CT.
The front & rear axles, rims, brake drum, bearings etc.. on the MB are the same as the CT200U-EX. The fenders appear to be same fit. The headlight mount look the same. Headlight on MB I think is an LED and looks to be an easy swap.
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Great ! The more i ride mine the more i like it and the cross overs are what i needed ! I have a set of moped shocks that are much thinner and i believe softer if the flood/time has not killed them i might try to therm on mine . i think they are longer but i would not mind it sitting higher in the rear . I had a thought last night adjustable air shocks if they even make them any longer ..........
With my Tac i think i need to adjust the number of wraps on the sparkplug wire i backed ot the limiter screw about 3 turns out and top out at 4300 RPM it not seem right governed as it is ..... Knowledge , ponderances ?
With my Tac i think i need to adjust the number of wraps on the sparkplug wire i backed ot the limiter screw about 3 turns out and top out at 4300 RPM it not seem right governed as it is ..... Knowledge , ponderances ?
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If changing shock length and travel. Check how much your chain tension changes with swing arm travel. There are air and nitrogen filled adjustable shocks for minis. Raising the back much higher, could result in handling probs, due to how it changes the front ends rake. Anymore than 1" could possibly create probs. This was an issue I had with racing setups on full size Enduro bikes. Not sure how critical it is on minis yet.
OK i chose these https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09HTVWGKW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1
About 2 1/2 inches longer than stock . 2.5" over 60 " center to center wheel base 2.4 degrees of elevation change forward no real drastic change of fork rake ..............
About 2 1/2 inches longer than stock . 2.5" over 60 " center to center wheel base 2.4 degrees of elevation change forward no real drastic change of fork rake ..............
If you looked at aftermarket upgrade shocks for minis. Notice that for 11" shocked bikes they are 11" - 12" If going longer was a benefit or good idea. I would think that the people behind the money, design and racing would be doing that. I'm not an expert in this, nor would I ever claim to be. Will be interesting to see what your results honestly are.
Ah now i understand where you are coming from . For me speed is not the issue ,yes i would like 30 mph on dirt road but after years on a Rokon ,i like no path cross county riding . You come across a down tree ,you do not go around but over it ! And "paddling" with feet is part of the game .
LOL A tire mark and foot impressions along the track is the signature of a Rokon and worn proudly on shirts !!
On the MB200S with only 7.5" of ground clearance stock it is 1/2 of the the Rokon clearance so any gain is better , the MB200S does not have a powered front wheel ( that can change ) but it weighs 60 -70 Lb less .
I have to "crunch" my self to sit over the center of the bike but am quite comfortable on the end of the seat over the rear wheel . So getting the front wheel into the air is easier especially if the motor has some "Grunt and Snort " to get it up/on/over the trunk /Palmetto . Shift weight forward and the frame slides over til rear tire grabs and you are off it with a Drop (why i need soft shocks ) .
It is not a Rokon but it costs less than 1/8 of what one does so it is an experiment !! And a totally different style of riding ........
It was a "Gas" to have a passenger and ride up to a 48" dia. log and go right over it with no foot down at all in first gear (0-10 mph ) second was 0-20 and third 0-30 mph ,CVT , 10 tooth to 60 on wheels , Kohler CS6 with governor removed .
See where i am going now ?
LOL A tire mark and foot impressions along the track is the signature of a Rokon and worn proudly on shirts !!
On the MB200S with only 7.5" of ground clearance stock it is 1/2 of the the Rokon clearance so any gain is better , the MB200S does not have a powered front wheel ( that can change ) but it weighs 60 -70 Lb less .
I have to "crunch" my self to sit over the center of the bike but am quite comfortable on the end of the seat over the rear wheel . So getting the front wheel into the air is easier especially if the motor has some "Grunt and Snort " to get it up/on/over the trunk /Palmetto . Shift weight forward and the frame slides over til rear tire grabs and you are off it with a Drop (why i need soft shocks ) .
It is not a Rokon but it costs less than 1/8 of what one does so it is an experiment !! And a totally different style of riding ........
It was a "Gas" to have a passenger and ride up to a 48" dia. log and go right over it with no foot down at all in first gear (0-10 mph ) second was 0-20 and third 0-30 mph ,CVT , 10 tooth to 60 on wheels , Kohler CS6 with governor removed .
See where i am going now ?
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