Predator 212 - Breaking In - Most important part of an engines life.

[braaaaap]

Ok so I've done a lot of research into not only breaking-in Honda clones and Predators but for engines in general. There seems to be a whole heck of a lot of controversy as to what RPM to run the engine during break-in, how long to run it, whether to load the engine or not, etc etc. All in the name of properly seating the piston rings and preventing cylinder wall glazing.

What I can muster up from the whole idea, i.e. what makes sense to me so far, is the fact that it is not a good idea to break-in the engine at or near an idle RPM. This makes sense because of the fact that cylinder pressure is low during the idle condition and the engine is running rich. Improper cylinder pressure would lead to no piston ring seating at all, while the rich running condition may allow gasoline to seep down the cylinder walls (blow-by), washing away the lubrication and causing extremely uneven friction wear patterns during the break-in.

So, with all that said it's my first thought that maybe when breaking-in an engine the best condition would be a mid-range RPM, possibly around 3000 RPM (?). This would be where the engine is creating peak HP, torque, and cylinder pressure, therefore creating perfect condition for proper ring seating. This is all of course with changing oil at let's say 30 min. intervals over a period of 3 hours.

My questions arise in whether loading the engine is necessary. I'd rather break the engine in on an engine stand before installing on my mini. Keep in mind that my Predator is modified (no gov, billet flywheel, rod, cam, etc). That is why I'm taking so much precaution in proper break-in. If the engine was stock I wouldn't worry so much as these engines are a cheap replacement stock.

Been hanging around the forums here for years but just last month made an account. I value your guys' opinions especially, seeing all of the cool stuff you guys are creating and riding. Seems like there's plenty of old hot-rodders around here that can provide a wealth of knowledge and I appreciate any help on this and questions to come. :hammer:

 

[lawn-boy biker]

I never took the time to break in anything other than model airplane engines.
Also, how does one break in a generator that runs at full bore straight out of the box?
Many newer mowers do not have a speed control and also run full speed from the get go with no ill effect.

 

[mfire39]

Run it balls out right out of the box. They are built as throw away engines.. If it blows up, clip another coupon and take a ride to Harbor Freight..

 

[braaaaap]

I'm not saying that the engine can't be run balls out right out of the box like on a generator, but after spending the time and moola hopping the motor up I want to ensure prolonged engine life while retaining good performance. Improper break in can lead to a decrease in both.

 

[dakota]

I say warm it up good, don't rev it over 3000 for the first hour, & good clean oil & a good clean air filter :thumbsup:

 

[wb4rt]

What would you notice if an engine is not "broken in" correctly? Could you tell without tearing it down?

What is the likely damage?

 

[CarPlayLB]

I break 'em in just like I do a car engine. First of all I use an additive with a higher zinc level. Todays modern oil has lower levels of zinc to meet emissions standards, but the zinc acts like a lubricant. Lucas makes a good one, or look for "hot rod" oil for off road use only. New engines without rollers lifters tend to wipe out the cam within the first 20 minutes without the zinc! I will start the engine and run it at varying RPM's for 20 minutes...lets all the parts get familiar with each other. I go from above idle but never to full throttle. If I had a tach, I'd vary it between 1500 and 2200 RPM's. Change the oil, then run it like ya stole it!

 

[gumpit]

A guy that used to build hopped up custom car engines around here used to say "break it in like you drive every day,if it's going to break its going to break".... But that was his opinion and I think there are as many opinions on this subject as any others.... If your running a clone and it blows up,what parts can get hurt? The rod,head? Block? Not the end of the world.

 

[yalipito]

Use a product with zinc as stated above and ride it like you stole it. Read this Break In Secrets--How To Break In New Motorcycle and Car Engines For More Power

 

[lawn-boy biker]

A guy that used to build hopped up custom car engines around here used to say "break it in like you drive every day,if it's going to break its going to break"....

I have had countless rebuilds cross my workbench over the decades and completely agree with this statement.

 

[Kilejungst]

Run it balls out right out of the box. They are built as throw away engines.. If it blows up, clip another coupon and take a ride to Harbor Freight..

Alot of us do not have a hundred dollar bill to throw away just for being impatient.

Sent from my Alcatel 6055U using Tapatalk

 

[lawn-boy biker]

Alot of us do not have a hundred dollar bill to throw away just for being impatient.

I certainly do not, but...

I have yet to see an engine failure due to improper break-in.
Have you?
Has anyone?
Plenty of "hearsay", but no documentation.

 

[SAS289]

I break 'em in just like I do a car engine. First of all I use an additive with a higher zinc level. Todays modern oil has lower levels of zinc to meet emissions standards, but the zinc acts like a lubricant. Lucas makes a good one, or look for "hot rod" oil for off road use only. New engines without rollers lifters tend to wipe out the cam within the first 20 minutes without the zinc! I will start the engine and run it at varying RPM's for 20 minutes...lets all the parts get familiar with each other. I go from above idle but never to full throttle. If I had a tach, I'd vary it between 1500 and 2200 RPM's. Change the oil, then run it like ya stole it!

I would never add zinc to oil. Could make the anti wear properties worse in some oils.

I don't have the link but there was a very detailed study of oils with different additives including zinc. The study proved that adding zinc to oil does not improve the anti wear properties of the oil.

 

[Phil1958]

i would think that you would want to run the engine under a substantial load, not some
aribitrary rpm. a load would apply pressure to the things needing a sealing or burnishing
process.

SAS289 is right, i read maybe the same or a similar study about adding zinc to oil.

during the break in period where surfaces are 'cutting' or wearing into each other
maybe a really good lubricant isn't needed.

what do i know??!! ut:

 

[SAS289]

i would think that you would want to run the engine under a substantial load, not some
aribitrary rpm. a load would apply pressure to the things needing a sealing or burnishing
process.

SAS289 is right, i read maybe the same or a similar study about adding zinc to oil.

during the break in period where surfaces are 'cutting' or wearing into each other
maybe a really good lubricant isn't needed.

what do i know??!! ut:

Kinda makes you wonder. Should you use a break in oil like Lucas with it's very, very low anti wear properties, or a full synthetic common oil like Mobil 1 with it's incredible wear protection? Maybe the Lucas would provide a quicker break in? And I doubt there is an oil that would stop break in.

30wt Lucas Break-In Oil, conventional = 49,455 psi
10W30 Mobil 1, Advanced Full Synthetic, API SN = 115,635 psi

Found the link. https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/

 

[metal man]

Gas it up and run it down the street 30 minutes drop oil fill and go play . The old briggs book had something like that . Newer briggs 30 minutes change .
on the synthetic oil not for break in hot rod or carcraft had a thing on that . The big engines builders dont ues it for break in to slick ? But what do me know ..... aaaa not much i dont use synthetic

 

[danford1]

I agree with what CarPlayLB said
My guess is your "hopped up" engine has the stock piston and rings in it. Am I right? You probably just put a billet rod, flywheel cam and springs in it... Please tell me/us what you did to hop it up. We all like built engines.
Thanks
Danford1

 

[EVOL Tweety Bird]

Something else, these engines out of the box, are notorious for running lean so not really a chance for a rich mixture contaminating the oil.

I broke mine in stock, 30 wt oil, full tank of gas, started it up on the back patio, and let it run for an hour. Then tore it down and added all the hop up parts. Cylinder bore looked great, no abby normal wear that I could find. Just wait till you tear one down, there is so much flashing and poor finishing done at the factory, break in is more then likely your last worry for longevity. You'll find all kinds of metal floating in the oil when you change it, and even more waiting to break loose when you tear down the engine.

If you want one to last, tear it down before you break it in, and clean it out good. Then break it in.

All that said, my Hemi is now on year two, and that's two years of pounding and abuse at the tracks almost every weekend.

 

[65ShelbyClone]

This is like an oil thread; 10 different replies and 11 different opinions. :shrug:

The only consistent break-in recommendation I've ever seen is "run it how you're going to run it." Iron rings on an iron bore seat very quickly over a wide range of running conditions, so that's not really a big deal. If I had to recommend an actual procedure, it would the simple one that Hastings has for their rings: https://www.hastingsmfg.com/ServiceTips/breakin_procedure.htm

Special rings like chrome, stainless, and moly-faced will have different bore finishing and break-in requirements, but that information should be supplied with the rings.

Don't screw around with zinc additives; those are for automotive flat-tappet pushrod cams that have very different break-in and lubrication requirements.

What would you notice if an engine is not "broken in" correctly? Could you tell without tearing it down? What is the likely damage?

Increased leakdown and oil consumption if the rings didn't seat. If the cam is getting wiped, the valvetrain will get noisy in a hurry and the oil will be full of metal.

 

[electrathon]

If in the first few hours of running there is going to be any "wear" on the engine to allow things to "seat" together you have much more serious issues than conditioning a new engine.

Drive it normally. Breaking in an engine is from the old days (50 years ago) and it was likely just a myth then too. Modern machining and modern oils... Just run the engine. Yes, change the oil early, it will flush out the metal that was not properly rinsed out during assembly.