Sorry guys; but I'm going to have to take issue with your responses to Jrzz. His suggestion to have a hints and kinks thread is an excellent one. A year or so ago I submitted a "how to" thread on making small roll spring pins. The response was "Ogy needs to get a life". That was my first and last how to post. I have more than 60 years of welding, fabricating, machining, jig making, and problem solving experience stored in this brain and I know there are a few others on this site that do too. Seems to me a smart person would be eager to learn a few hints or solutions to problems from someone who has been there and done that. The kid was serious about his thread and instead of telling him that his idea was a great one; all he got was a bunch of flip and bullshit responses. And what's the big deal about where he posted. He's talking about building and projects and how to make them easier. Seems more logical to post it here than in the blue waffle section. Ogy