Bent Steering Tube-Cut and Weld or Bend Back?

[Dnice]

Hi all,
Putting a Sears Roper together and coming to the realization that the steering tube has been bent forwards, reducing the rake. Forks are straight (now) but when I put it all together there appears to be very little rake. The fork hits the steering tube when I turn the bars full left or right and it doesn't appear that the bars are turning as far as they should.
Looking at others pics I think the steering tube is bent.

Soooo, should I cut it off and reweld it or stick a pipe in there, heat it and bend it out
Thinking that the bending might deform the tube. But the cut and weld might be a tougher, more time intensive job (i got kids, a wife, and stuff-- time is GOLD).

Any advice?

Thanks

 

[ogygopsis]

Dnice, I can't imagine being able to heat up and bend that steering tube with that massive gusset that is currently on there. Perhaps welding an offset scab plate on the bottom or top of the lower triangular cross plate with a new bolt hole that would give you the additional rake you are looking for. Wish I could explain more clearly. Ogy

 

[jeep2003]

arnt the gussets all that hold it? no pipes connected. If so then it should bend back out fairly easy. It bent once it can bend again

 

[Sunnyknoll]

You might try heating the gusset and then try bending it back with a long bar inserted into the tube. The tube might get a bit "warm" as well, but I'd probably try to concentrate the heat on both sides of that gusset. Not sure if I'm crazy about that arrangement.

 

[KMC3420]

I would remove the forks and head tube bolt, heat the gusset and then use a long bar for leverage. Not sure what steps could be taken to ensure that doesn't happen again, it appears a pretty good head on hit could have caused that damage, or maybe a sweet jump that landed front wheel first at a downward angle. A triangle shaped gusset might be added to the bottom side if possible to greatly strengthen the bottom side. Just thinking "out loud."

EDIT: just saw the above suggestion, stepped away for a sec. I concur with SunnyKnoll.

 

[FOMOGO]

Well here's my take on it. Metal is much more malleable than most people realize. Heat would be my last choice. The plates on both sides look as though they need to be flat. I would pull the fork and try to bend them cold. They tend to return to there original shape if they are influenced in a similar manner to what moved them to start with. IE cold bending. With heat you can stretch the metal and can easily go beyond what it should be. Also you run the risk of oblonging the head tube if you move it with a pry bar of any sort. I believe that the head tube captured in a vice where the vice jaws held the top and bottom of the head tube would allow you to push on the frame and flex the plates back in place. The last little bit would have to be persuaded with a block of wood and some hammer work and the hammer of choice would be a 3 or 4 pound dead blow hammer.

Think about it this way. Holding the frame and moving the head tube requires a LOT of force. Holding the head tube and pushing the frame back requires a LOT less force. Better, more controllable end result.

Lots and lots of years of restoring and repairing cars and trucks has taught me to move metal the same way that it got moved to start with. Yes heat would move it like it was paper thin but heat changes the metal too.

That's just the way I would do it. One of my DB's had the high speed fork syndrome. I never took them off the frame but instead clamped them down to the welding table and pulled the frame back into place. Pull, check... pull, check and they were straight. Quick and simple.

Work smarter not harder................

 

[bikebudy]

Remove engine, Using the two rear support bars just behind the engine. Put a steel plate across the two.
Use a 2 ton bottle jack and a section of heavy duty pipe. Slowly pump the jack and return the neck to
the OG position. Good Luck

 

[bikebudy]

You might even add some light hammer tapping to each side gusset, it will help the process of the jack pressing at the base.

 

[FOMOGO]

Remove engine, Using the two rear support bars just behind the engine. Put a steel plate across the two.
Use a 2 ton bottle jack and a section of heavy duty pipe. Slowly pump the jack and return the neck to
the OG position. Good Luck

You might even add some light hammer tapping to each side gusset, it will help the process of the jack pressing at the base.

Even simpler. Work smarter, not harder... Just use a block of wood when you hammer on the gusset so you don't scar it up.

 

[Dnice]

Thanks for all the ideas! So the consensus seems to be no welding, that's good news! Ill try to bend it using one or more of the tips you guys provided and will report back with results.
Thanks again!

 

[Dnice]

Remove engine, Using the two rear support bars just behind the engine. Put a steel plate across the two.
Use a 2 ton bottle jack and a section of heavy duty pipe. Slowly pump the jack and return the neck to
the OG position. Good Luck

Great advice.
Are you suggesting that I leave the fork on and put pressure on the bottom plate of the fork? Otherwise it will be a tight squeeze to get the pipe on the lowest bit of the steering tube.

 

[Sunnyknoll]

Be careful not to bend the frame tubes.........or break a weld. That plate might be tougher than we think. That's why I suggested a little heat.

 

[KMC3420]

Be careful not to bend the frame tubes.........or break a weld. That plate might be tougher than we think. That's why I suggested a little heat.

I agree, by using a bottle jack you will find your weakest link. Adding a little heat should ensure the part you want to bend will bend first. I have broke a few welds on things by using a shop press, more than a 3 ton bottle jack of course but seems like the part you think won't break does.

 

[Havasu Dave]

If this were my project, I'd remove that steering head gusset and repair it. It looks like spot welds. I note that the top, back end of that gusset is lifted from the frame. I also note that the sides of the gusset on the bottom appear to be splayed outboard.

It would be a very simple matter to remove it, inspect it, bend as required on an anvil, and then re-weld it with the front end assembled to establish your rake.

 

[bikebudy]

Great advice.
Are you suggesting that I leave the fork on and put pressure on the bottom plate of the fork? Otherwise it will be a tight squeeze to get the pipe on the lowest bit of the steering tube.

Use whatever you can to help you, if that is keeping the fork on, do that.

If you need to change the angle of the jack, use some wood shims behind the steel plate an the tubes.


P.s. If it were me, I'd keep the fork on.

 

[FOMOGO]

You know its always the same story.... The people like this that you would like to help and would be willing to help in your own garage or shop are never close enough to be able to help them. Any one of us that has replied could nock it out in about an hour or less and enjoy having helped a fellow OMBer. Dave, you are the closest and that is still an all day long haul one way..... Don't you wish we all lived in our own Minibike corner of the world. Man we could get somethings done that way!

Have a safe and happy new year gents!

Doug

 

[ole4]

The gusset plate is bent out at the bottoms take the fork off and stick the frame sideways in a 12 or 20 ton press one gusset under the ram and the bottom on a 1" socket and press the plates together till straight (or maybe I should say flat again) and the neck tube should go back where it belongs.

 

[Havasu Dave]

You know its always the same story.... The people like this that you would like to help and would be willing to help in your own garage or shop are never close enough to be able to help them. Any one of us that has replied could nock it out in about an hour or less and enjoy having helped a fellow OMBer. Dave, you are the closest and that is still an all day long haul one way..... Don't you wish we all lived in our own Minibike corner of the world. Man we could get somethings done that way!

:thumbsup: Indeed Doug, however quite a few of us have done free work for people, shipped people parts for free, given bikes away, given engines away, rebuilt clutches for people, given advice on build off bikes, been behind the scenes not wishing for notoriety, just helping because it was the right thing to do.

Dnice, look at Ole4's suggestion. He's a guy who doesn't fill the place up with dubious build threads, yet possess more knowledge in his pinky than almost anyone I know, and has made generous offers of help, tools, and experience.

Or, try and reach out to Ogy from page one. Not only does he have seven decades of experience, he is a master welder and fabricator.

Or load the frame up and drive out here, and we'll fix it up. There is a Minibike corner in my world, and since I know who is whom, in your corner of the world as well, straight up I5.

Doug, there are some people I've helped, and some people I'll never help again. But for the most part, I am here because I love old mini bikes, and I love helping others with the same passion. Something tells me you're the same way.

 

[FOMOGO]

:thumbsup: Indeed Doug, however quite a few of us have done free work for people, shipped people parts for free, given bikes away, given engines away, rebuilt clutches for people, given advice on build off bikes, been behind the scenes not wishing for notoriety, just helping because it was the right thing to do.

Doug, there are some people I've helped, and some people I'll never help again. But for the most part, I am here because I love old mini bikes, and I love helping others with the same passion. Something tells me you're the same way.

I hear ya Dave. I have a huge shop full of tools and 50 plus years of hands on that I enjoy sharing with people that need/want to learn. Spent a few years teaching Auto Mechanics at the High School level and a couple more at the Technical College. Just not cut out to do the paperwork end of it. I can teach all day but I hated the "political" end of it. I don't know a single soul on the forum that is even close to me. I wish I did and we could have a little get together on occasion.

I will have to say that the first friend I made on this Forum was OND. Eric has become a good friend and helped me with several things. He has gotten a couple of "care packages" in the mail too... There are other people that have become friends as well and hopefully there will be plenty more to come.

I try to offer help if I can help but I am still learning so much from this group. It is amazing what people share on here. I only have 1 vintage bike. A Cat 250X that I have been collecting parts for. But I have several newer bikes, 4 DB's & 2 Warriors and a Savage frame that Eric built for me. I have been collecting parts for it too.

I am that guy that begged for a minibike in the 60's but it was always "you'll get hurt". So I flipped over the handlebars on my English Racer and took all the skin off my face about 3 or 4 days before school pictures... My Mom was not happy. Then I went over the bars on another bicycle and broke a tooth... Kept getting more bicycles though. I don't guess they weren't dangerous.... Never got a minibike until I was 57 years old and bought that little Cat as a bare frame for $1.50 at an estate auction. Then it just sort of blew up into an addiction and thinking this is going to be fun......

 

[Havasu Dave]

^ I also have some experience in working in a very large school district for a few years in a logistics (transportation supervisor) function and saw the politics first hand. Of course I was friends with several of the educators and administrators and saw what they were up against.

We're the same age. We were dirt poor in the 60's, so I never had a mini bike. I used to carry around a Sears mini bike ad in my pocket. $119 they wanted for it, and I was saving money by collecting pop bottles and cashing them in. Alas, I'd invariably blow my 25 cent windfall on candy.

About five years ago, I was down the street at a neighbor's house helping him wire up a restored 1950 Ford. (EFI 302 job) I spotted a mini bike behind his Plymouth Roadrunner, (he is a fellow MOPAR guy) and asked if he'd sell it. He gave it to me, and it was (irony) also a Cat 250. That was several thousand dollars and 20 mini bikes ago.

A couple years ago, I was working on one of the more rare bikes, and out of the blue, a seldom posting member here started sending me frame parts. The brown truck would show up and voila. He made me promise not to give out his name. But yes, I too have had similar experiences like you have.

It is unfortunate that motivations for being here vary from needy, self aggrandizement to a personal philanthropic directive. It's refreshing to see the good in people though, despite how difficult it is for me to walk that thin line between posting a show and tell mini bike, and just wanting to help. I suspect many of us use our own motivations to judge that of others, unfortunately. But it's worth it, to be able to share our love of this hobby via the internet; sometimes it's good to take a hiatus for six months.

Ha. I just recalled my 9th grade auto shop teacher. He'd regale us with seedy stories of taking some military leave in Saigon while we'd be bent over an Oldsmobile with the Sun diagnostics machine hooked up. :thumbsup: Grocery bags full of vegetable matter, with a couple of "tour guides" draped over each arm. The seventies...