Valves and seat question briggs 5hp?

#1
I have a question on valve seats on a briggs 5hp 130212-1919-01 motor with date code 86082807. I got it from a friend who was in the process of rebuilding it. He had bought all the parts like new rings, piston, gaskets, valves, and so on. When I got it from him, everything was in a big box. About 20 years ago I built / rebuilt about 40 small motors so I have a little knowledge of them but I never had to mess with the valve seats. They were always good enough to just lap them and let them go. I started putting this one back together and soon as I installed the valves I noticed something wasn’t right. I then noticed the valve seats were missing and felt like a dumb a** for even dropping them in the hole and not noticing it before. Well after that I just stopped and started reading for about 3 solid weeks refreshing my brain on everything; I think I am ready to finish building the motor now. I am just stuck on a few things I need help with. The motor is just going on a 285 Manco Dingo yard kart so I am not looking to do every little tweak I can to it. I just want it to run the best it can and me be able to do all of the work / labor to it myself. I could just buy a motor but I am the type person who for 37 years does 99.9% of everything himself. That’s just the one thing in life that makes me the happiest – knowing I done it myself.

First is the valve seats. I would like to install these myself if at all possible. I have read in some of the old briggs books that if you put the seat in the freezer or in dry ice and heat the block up, they install fairly easy and seal excellent. Should I still use Loctite or something like JB Weld to help seal and hold them in? Should I still ping around them?

Next is the exhaust valve. I know on the Briggs diagram it shows the valve going down though the hole, the spring, and then the clip to hold it together. On some motors there is a piece that goes on top of the spring called something like rotocoil or rotocap. In the parts, I did not find any part like this so I was wondering if my model had this piece and it just wasn’t in the box.

He already had the piston in but I took it out and double checked everything. The rings were all turned right and looked good but I had a question about the rod. There were no arrows or markings on the piston so I assume it could go any direction. The rod had an oil hole that went down to the crank. I turned it toward the cam shaft so as it would get the best oil. The cap and rod had like little tabs / tits so I just matched them so I think I have them correct.

The guides seem to be good. I know the intake valve fit very tight. The exhaust valve guide I can’t remember. How hard is to replace the guide if I needed to?

Last is the crank shaft bushings. This motor does not have the bearings but I think it has the bushings. How hard is it to press the bushings in the block and the cover if it needs them?

Other than them few things, I think I have everything else figured out.
 
#2
well I can't answer all the questions, cause I'm sure not a Briggs guy.....but speaking generally you normally can not just install new seats or guides and get away with just lapping in the valves, you will need to grind the seats to get it all concentric to seal up again, preferably a 3 angle job so you can locate and adjust the width of the seating area.
..it's possible you'll get away without doing it...but I doubt it.

as far as installing the seats, you're on the right track...try freezing the seats and heating the seat area a little bit with a heat gun or just wave the torch around it...don't go crazy....maybe a little bit of Loctite Sleeve Retaing Compound (green) smeared around the od of the seat before knocking it in...:thumbsup:
 

125ccCrazy

Well-Known Member
#4
not a 100% sure on the seats but guides are pretty easy..I just installed guides in 3 blocks....You will need a hone to hone the guides til you get the right specs...

I used a can of freon I had when I install the guides... it sure does make it easier..
 
#5
I got a friend to put the seats in for me. He has a small motors shop with all the tools to do it. I lapped them when I got home and all looks good. The new intake valve was right in clearance .005 - .007 The exhaust valve was not even touching the seat. I got it ground down to the right clearance of .009 - .011 so all is good there. I checked the guides and they look fine. I have been doing a lot or reading and while I have the springs out, I was wondering if I should just put new exhaust springs on both valves 555076 Valve Spring-Exhaust and Intake? I am also still wondering if I should put the 555039 Retainer-Valve on the top of the Exhaust spring? I have read on here where some builders say put them on both springs. I finally got a hold of the friend I got it from and he says he can’t remember if that was a Dyno Cam he had put in it or a stock one. There is a Dyno Cam sticker on the motor but he said it was 10 years ago when he started the build and just put it all in the box.

I double checked the bushings, crankshaft, and rod to crankshaft and they seem to be all with in specs. I did have a small question though. With the head off and flywheel on – I can put the piston TDC or all the way down and I can turn the flywheel about ½” without the piston moving up or down. This maybe normal and probably is, I just was wondering if it was.

I contoured the eyebrows a little so they didn’t have sharp edges on them. Cleaned and rebuilt the carb.

Im still wondering about the rod though. The rod looks the exact same on both sides. The only difference is the top where the pin goes though it – there is a little tit that protrudes out one side about 1/8”. It’s like its there to keep the piston from moving back and forth too much on the rod. Where it connects to the crankshaft, it is the exact same on both sides. Only difference is one side has a hole drilled in it to the crankshaft. I read for about 2 days straight. I didn’t find one mention about it in any books but on some forums online I found 3 other people asking the same question. They all had 3 answers where people said the hole should be facing the cam gear (side opposite the flywheel). They said it made most since because the gear would throw off oil and oiled the hole which oiled the crank / rod bearing. If it was on the backside it would never get oil. I never found no official “Briggs” or a seasoned builders answer. As far as the rod cap – that’s what confused me the most. It would fit on both ways and it fit just a good either way. One side was a mirror image to the other. If you have ever seen like injection molding where two plates go together – sometimes it leaves like a little flash or burr when the material gets in between the plates. One side of the rod had a little of this and one side of the rod cap had this. I just matched up these when I put them together. I actually installed the piston in the cylinder and on the crank with the rod both ways. Either way worked the same. Since the cap was symmetrical, the dipper fit with the cap either way. It is the metal, stock, factory dipper. The one that looks like a triangle with the tip split and each leg bent away from each other. I know the rod, cap, and crankshaft has a wear pattern form the hundreds of hours or being ran so I just wanted to make sure I had it right. Thing is, it may have been turned wrong when it was first rebuilt and then ran for another 2 years. The only reason it was removed this time was to have a new piston and rings installed.

I was going to try and stop by the Kart store tomorrow. I was planning on picking up some parts along with some new springs and guides anyway so I would have them on hand if it was best to install. They may have not came factory with them but it maybe one of them things they found out 10 years later and after thousands of dollars in research, it was better to add them.
 

125ccCrazy

Well-Known Member
#6
yes the oil hole in the rod should face the cam since thats the direction the engine rotates through the oil slinging oil up and running down the rod into the hole... Personally if it was me I wouldn't run that rod if it's the factory piece with alot of use... rods are cheap and can cause big expense if they break..You can find good used billet rods on Bob's karting forum, guys sell them for $25 or less shipped all the time.. I just bought two a few weeks ago, both in great shape for $15 each.... the bearings are even useable but I'll use new ones...

If the cam is a performance cam there should be tell tale signs of welding or machining on the lobes... even if the cam is a small lift, the lobes will generally be very smooth and polished unlike a stock cam where they useually have a grainy surface..

depending on the lift of the cam, if it's a small lift like a 233 exh springs will be good on both sides..
 
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